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Guns are 'moronic', would you agree? Watch

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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    Guns are ****ing great, as long as there's only one in the whole world and I've got it and I get to shoot stuff.

    Other than that, they're awful things.


    Certainly history shows time and time again that the looser the gun laws, the more dangerous and violent the country is to live in.
    Is that why France, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Spain, Sweden (to name a few) all have a higher rate of gun ownership than the UK, some by an order of 5-6 times, and either an equivalent or considerably lower homicide and violent crime rate?
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    The gun control debate is just a way for insecure Western Europeans to find a way to feel less inferior to Americans.


    In places like Detroit in the US where you get gang members shooting each other, many of the guns used were illegally obtained, unregistered, so the issue is obviously social deprivation. When you get these school shootings (which are in fact extremely rare) the issue is more a mixture of how much pressure American society puts on its citizens and how little attention mental illness is given.

    As examples, places like France and Switzerland have loose gun control, but much lower crime rates than South Africa, which actually has some of the toughest gun restrictions in the world.
    Not sure if serious

    We have it better than the Americans in the majority of ways, including our health service, dramatically lower cost of higher education, lack of religious ****tards so on and so forth. Gun ownership is one of the things that people in this country are **** scared of for no logical reason, a fear that other European nations do not seem to share
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    (Original post by Abstraction)
    No, they aren't. Apart from the fact that inanimate objects can't be moronic, people should have the right to defend themselves against dangerous civilians. Stephen Lawrence sure would have found a gun useful, so would many others like Lee Rigby who were murdered in such a senseless manner on the street. Even if we accept such occasions are rare, plenty of people are attacked or robbed daily - surely criminals would be deterred from such activities if people could arm themselves. I'm not even a right-wing libertarian nut, I'm a left wing socialist lol. But some people endure truly terrifying ordeals and I think they should be granted the liberty to take defence into their own hands. The flaw with State police is that they only arrive on the scene once the crime has been committed, they can very rarely act before anyone is hurt.

    I think gun ownership is also pretty important for ethnic minorities, who are constantly at risk of being violated by the majority. Many people don't realise that though guns are legal in America, there are still strong restrictions in many areas. These restrictions, like the drug war, have an origin in racism. Many of them were erected once Black organisations started carrying around guns and making it clear that they would defend themselves against violence and intimidation by the State and White civilians. Even in the UK, there is a great risk of all this stupid anti-immigration sentiment, whipped up by Cameron and Farage, exploding into violence against minorities. Personally, I'd like to get a gun eventually. If I can't get one legally, then possibly illegally. I don't want to wait until I'm a casualty being reported to the State's bulldogs.
    What? So everyone has a gun? And the guys who police the guys with guns have guns, and bigger guns? All these untrained idiotic people with killing machines...

    Guns, currently and generally speaking, aren't needed - and will only make any problem worse through inflation of gun related crime.
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    (Original post by bertstare)
    Is that why France, Norway, Switzerland, Germany, Spain, Sweden (to name a few) all have a higher rate of gun ownership than the UK, some by an order of 5-6 times, and either an equivalent or considerably lower homicide and violent crime rate?

    Nice cherry picking, on par with "its colder today than it was yesterday, therefore global warming is a myth".
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    Nothing wrong with guns. It's people who cause the problems.

    Have a well-regulated system behind ownership, including registered ammunition, licenses and proficiency-based tests and I'm all for them.
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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    Nice cherry picking, on par with "its colder today than it was yesterday, therefore global warming is a myth".
    So I just gave you several countries, close to home and pretty similar to the UK (far more so than the US which could not have a more different history), which all out your "more guns = more murder" claim as total horse ****, and the best you've got is some ridiculous analogy? I'm pro gun and even I have better anti gun arguments than that
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    (Original post by hellodave5)
    What? So everyone has a gun? And the guys who police the guys with guns have guns, and bigger guns? All these untrained idiotic people with killing machines...
    We allow all manner of people to have cars. They kill. So do dogs, they're allowed.
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    (Original post by bertstare)
    Not sure if serious
    I wouldn't want to live in the US, because I dislike the sound of their accents and I feel it lacks any spirit or culture, but Europeans are so insecure when it comes to thinking about America. They always try to claim that they are stupid, ignorant, fat all kinds of childish things.


    (Original post by bertstare)
    We have it better than the Americans in the majority of ways, including our health service, dramatically lower cost of higher education, lack of religious ****tards so on and so forth. Gun ownership is one of the things that people in this country are **** scared of for no logical reason, a fear that other European nations do not seem to share

    If you are poor the UK is a better place to be, but if you are wealthy America is better. The US also is more grand and powerful, they don't have that fear of being proud of who they are, they have better universities, more money to spend on turning sporting events into great spectacles, other countries take them seriously on the world stage. The USA is like the guy at the party, who might seem a little bit cocky or loud, but is totally surrounded by friends and happiness, Europe is the pathetic little guy sitting alone in the corner, convincing himself he is better because he is "more refined and less obnoxious" than the big American.

    British people fear guns because just like some Americans, they too have their opinions swayed by biased media.
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    The issue with guns is that there is a minority of people that shouldn't have guns because they are morons. You can't regulate/determine who the moron gun owner will be and who the responsible ones will be.
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    (Original post by bertstare)
    So I just gave you several countries, close to home and pretty similar to the UK (far more so than the US which could not have a more different history), which all out your "more guns = more murder" claim as total horse ****, and the best you've got is some ridiculous analogy? I'm pro gun and even I have better anti gun arguments than that
    lol, the fact that you think you can compare completely different countries with completely different societies, laws, demographies and cultures and isolate a single factor as the sole reason for their differing crime rates is laughable. Please don't ever be a scientist. Or a social scientist. Or indeed anything that requires a basic grasp of statistics.
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    (Original post by cole-slaw)
    Nice cherry picking, on par with "its colder today than it was yesterday, therefore global warming is a myth".
    British people cite "American gun ownership is higher, America has more gun crime therefore the first caused the second" all the time. Those things were valid counter examples.
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    (Original post by hellodave5)
    What? So everyone has a gun? And the guys who police the guys with guns have guns, and bigger guns? All these untrained idiotic people with killing machines...

    Guns, currently and generally speaking, aren't needed - and will only make any problem worse through inflation of gun related crime.
    I am not saying there should be a free-for-all, restrictions on gun ownership are fine. The America example was just to point out an example of how the State monopolising violence could threaten minorities. Mental health and criminal record checks are of course recommended.

    Do you have statistics for that? I don't think most people just want to go around killing senselessly; America has a lot of gun crime because of poverty, poor schools and poor housing for the disadvantaged. It's also a very sick society. Many countries aren't like that. Violent criminals will find a way to get guns anyway, right? Innocent civilians should be able to arm themselves against them.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    We allow all manner of people to have cars. They kill. So do dogs, they're allowed.
    But guns are explicitly for killing.
    You aim and you shoot; target = destroyed.
    Cars are meant for transport. If you wanted to kill someone, it is much less reliable trying to find the right moment to run someone over.
    Guns are good at what they have been designed for.
    I would much prefer the guns be kept in the hands of the special tactics teams and military.
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    British people cite "American gun ownership is higher, America has more gun crime therefore the first caused the second" all the time. Those things were valid counter examples.
    Got any more counter examples to claim that no-one has made? Perhaps you can refute the idea that the moon is made of cheese?
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    (Original post by hellodave5)
    But guns are explicitly for killing.
    You aim and you shoot; target = destroyed.
    Cars are meant for transport. If you wanted to kill someone, it is much less reliable trying to find the right moment to run someone over.
    Guns are good at what they have been designed for.
    I would much prefer the guns be kept in the hands of the special tactics teams and military.
    So were dogs.
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    Guns themselves aren't moronic, I can see why they exist and are legal in many violent and unsafe countries (most likely made worse by legality of guns :rolleyes:), but a hell of a lot of people who use them are idiots.

    I'd agree with their legalisation if every single person in the world was a rational being. Unfortunately they're not, and just because some people like blowing animal's brains out for 'sport' I don't see a reason to have them legal in this country.

    Whilst people are ****ing idiots - guns shouldn't be legal in this country. So, yeah, that means for eternity.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Nothing wrong with guns. It's people who cause the problems.

    Have a well-regulated system behind ownership, including registered ammunition, licenses and proficiency-based tests and I'm all for them.
    The UK has a very well regulated system for ownership (the police even come round to check you have a secure safe to store the firearm and a different safe place for the ammunition), all ammunition (a 1000 round limit is fairly common, this is specified on your certificate) is registered and written on your license (if you're not going to use it that day) and to be given a Section 1 certificate you have to be a member of a gun club for quite a while (six months at the one I'm a member of) after which they will sponsor you for a certificate. If you're not proficient with the weapons or safe there's no way in hell a gun club would sponsor you as they could be reprimanded severely if something goes wrong and it was a members fault.
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    (Original post by Abstraction)
    I am not saying there should be a free-for-all, restrictions on gun ownership are fine. The America example was just to point out an example of how the State monopolising violence could threaten minorities. Mental health and criminal record checks are of course recommended.

    Do you have statistics for that? I don't think most people just want to go around killing senselessly, America has a lot of gun crime because of poverty, poor schools and poor housing for the disadvantaged. It's also a very sick societyViolent criminals will find a way to get guns anyway
    Why is there so little gun crime in Europe compared to the US? If there wasn't the access to guns in the US, there wouldn't be such high levels of gun crime.

    Most people are good people; but there are always some that would misuse.
    Professional criminals, sure... but petty criminals no... if you have lots of guns around, they will go into the hands of them.

    There is honestly no need for guns. Shooting ranges and stuff are fun, sure. But it would cause so many problems.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    So were dogs.
    So were dogs?
    Again... guns are less explicit and easily concealed. Also a 'killer dog' can't massacre a room full of people like a gun. You can also possibly fend off a dog... you have no/little defence against a gun.
 
 
 
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