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    (Original post by Reluire)
    Recent or not, the point stands. Why do you think you are so superior to any animal that you have the right to kill it for a thrill, for a challenge or even for your amusement?
    I have the right to kill it because we are both animals and that is the natural order of things, I am evolutionarily programmed to subdue other life. Most predators are.
    To not hunt, to not take the life of another animal for food or sport would be unnatural and worrying.
    Nobody will explicitly admit those are motivators to a 'sport' like hunting, but they are usually true, even if only in the subconscious.
    I especially like how you linked all your psychological sources.

    Hunting is a way for man to assert some kind of superiority or alpha male status over animals.
    Speak for yourself, for me it's just a way to push myself and have some fun.

    You get to arm yourself with a gun -
    Or bow..don't forget bows

    does any animal? How is that fair, even if an animal by its own natural disposition cannot use one. By wielding an arm, you are automatically putting yourself at a hugely unfair advantage to vulnerable animals.
    Wolves get to arm themselves with razor sharp teeth and an immensely powerful jaw how is that fair?
    See the logical flaw there?

    Even then, why does a hobby/sport have to be fair?
    The sporting aspect is the competition between other humans, that competition is fair.
    The hobby aspect is derived from the enjoyment of the activity, how does fairness impact on that?

    So are a huge amount of other activities. Why does finding something 'demanding' and 'challenging' have to be so brutal and savage?
    Death is often a savage thing, though generally if you know what your doing Hunting should be clean and efficient.

    What if we said that about hunting humans? You wouldn't just be able to shoot a man in the head because you decide it will be quicker and less painful than letting nature takes its course. That's not your decision to make.
    As human beings we have developed complex social interactions and regulations to preserve the well being of the group and the individual within the group, mindlessly killing each other for reasons that go against the best interests of the social structure are of course punished and from an evolutionary standpoint have been ingrained on as negative things to be (mostly) avoided.

    All animals share this evolved skillset , it's why we preserve ourselves and do not preserve others.

    Even if it is quicker and less painful, why do you get to decide it's your right to take action?
    Intelligence and power I am afraid.

    And to pre-empt any "So does might make right in human interaction as well?" on a fundemental level...yes.
    However in practice no, because as I said we have developed safeguards to help our own kind and to keep a semblance of order within our hierarchy
    ,
    You don't know that it will be quicker and less painful
    Actually I do, numerous studies have been performed on animal brain function and pain response in regards to different methods of being killed.

    Unsurprisingly being bitten on the calf and brought to the ground then having your jugular ripped out was recorded to be more distressing and painful than a through and through head/heart/double long shot.

    Crazy aye?


    and in fact hunting often leads to young animals traumatically seeing their parents hunted and killed. To see something like that isn't just traumatic for humans, it's traumatic for most other sentient animals too.
    Again, factory meat conditions are more traumatic.

    The young in the wild would be just as traumatized if it was a wolf or a lion

    Ecologically, hunting can make a real mess of animal food chains as well. At least when it's done for the purpose of creating food, the hunting is done sustainably. Hunting for leisure has no regard for sustainability - only its self absorbed self.
    On the contrary hunting for leisure is in the modern world completely and absolutely modelled around sustainability.

    Hunters can only hunt at certain times, in certain places with very strict quotas, all based around sustainability and culling.

    I have been on over seventy hunts over the years and each one was regulated, licenses and in full compliance with quotas and accurate population reports, overwhelmingly the populations I hunted were grossly large and needed serious reduction to protect there own envrioment.

    We need to kill about 18'000 more deer a year than we currently do to stop certain areas of the British wildlife and ecosystems being absolutely devastated by vermin such as Deer.
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    I see absolutely no issue with the practice so long as it is undertaken humanely and sustainably. I think many who disagree with lack a coherent argument and are frankly, hypocrites, if you eat meat it is difficult to take you seriously when you say you find sustainable hunting morally reprehensible, the two stances simply aren't logically congruent.

    As far OP has made thoroughly sound arguments in favour,
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    I love hunting. It is my favorite hobby. I will always use as much as the animal as possible, otherwise you may as well just shoot targets. I don't go on driven shoots because I can't hit flying target for love nor money. But big game is simply the best. The thrill of the chase as you may put it. I have shot around Britain mainly, rabbits, deer that sort of thing. But my favorite is Zebra, the best is excellent and they aren't actually that easy to shoot.

    As for fox hunting, I am all for it. It was something I did at school and I really enjoyed it.

    Culling is also a good thing, brings the populations back down to a manageable size and reduces the loss of livestock.

    This man is my inspiration for hunting.

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    (Original post by spanker)
    I like animals and think they deserve to live more than humans, they have done nothing wrong it is people who are the problem with this world (bla bla hate on me for liking animals more than humans). I just generally hate people so yeah.

    I honestly could easily turn vegetarian if I had to kill the animals myself, but I like my steak too much.:rolleyes:
    Sorry I can't resist...you like animals more than humans(That's fine I guess..odd but..fine) yet you aren't a Vegi?

    Come on..consistency.
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    I'm against it, honestly. I mean I'm a vegetarian so obviously I'm against it haha. I don't have a problem if a cull is actually needed to protect the overall ecology, and provided the animal is killed in a humane way - if you shoot it once in the head, fine, but don't let it get ripped apart by dogs, that's horrific and inhumane.

    I find it pretty laughable that people talk about the 'thrill of the chase' as a hunter. Half of these 'hunters' never put themselves in a moment's danger and, like a coward, hunt their pray from a safe distance.

    (Original post by spanker)
    I like animals and think they deserve to live more than humans, they have done nothing wrong it is people who are the problem with this world (bla bla hate on me for liking animals more than humans). I just generally hate people so yeah.

    I honestly could easily turn vegetarian if I had to kill the animals myself, but I like my steak too much.:rolleyes:
    I'm gonna agree with OP on this one actually, that's a pretty hypocritical stance to take, but I do encourage you to make steps towards vegetarianism. Even if it's something as simple as replacing your meat-based recipes with Quorn or some such meat replacement.
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    Wouldn't do it myself, but as a meat eater it doesn't make sense to be against sustainable hunting. Both activities are done for pleasure.

    Might make an exception for fox hunting in the traditional sense.. maybe that takes the suffering too far.
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    Do you eat your kills/ someone else eats them?
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    I'm pro-hunting. As both a sport and a source of food, it is useful for controlling animal populations as well as raising money for conservation causes through permit purchasing schemes and hunting clubs.

    I shoot waterfowl and other small game from time-to-time (I'm not very committed to the hobby, though).

    Nice kills, by the way!
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    I've got no issue with hunting, as long as endangered/threatened animals aren't hunted, the hunting is regulated (through quotas, etc), and the animal isn't just left to rot/waste afterwards (unless it's to regulate overpopulation).
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    It just makes me feel uncomfortable. The idea that people do it for fun and seeing people posing with animals they've hunted makes me feel sick if I'm honest.

    Also, I noticed that you said something about people killing lions, but I don't see how hunting other animals is much different really...
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    (Original post by bumblebee342)
    Also, I noticed that you said something about people killing lions, but I don't see how hunting other animals is much different really...
    I don't know a lot about lions exactly, but we are talking about different quarry species. Maybe there's less of a justification behind the shooting of lions than there is for other animals? Supporting hunting/shooting in principle doesn't mean that every species out there is fair game.

    A lot of people shoot here in the UK, but you're not allowed to take endangered species. The need for control is also taken into account - genuine pest species can be shot but ones which cause no problems are usually protected. So it's perfectly reasonable that someone could support hunting/shooting, but not the hunting/shooting of certain species.
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    (Original post by forfrosne)
    I
    I find it pretty laughable that people talk about the 'thrill of the chase' as a hunter. Half of these 'hunters' never put themselves in a moment's danger and, like a coward, hunt their pray from a safe distance.
    Agreed, however a thrill doesn't need to come from Danger.

    I get a thrill ocassionally with a well timed Torpedo Volley on Star Trek: Online...I am perfectly safe.
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    (Original post by Snagprophet)
    Do you eat your kills/ someone else eats them?
    Whenever possible, if it's venison It gets put on the table(passed around the family) as soon as I get it back home, if for some reason I can't I have sold it before to a butcher/supplier.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    I'm pro-hunting. As both a sport and a source of food, it is useful for controlling animal populations as well as raising money for conservation causes through permit purchasing schemes and hunting clubs.

    I shoot waterfowl and other small game from time-to-time (I'm not very committed to the hobby, though).

    Nice kills, by the way!
    Thank you!
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    (Original post by bumblebee342)
    It just makes me feel uncomfortable. The idea that people do it for fun and seeing people posing with animals they've hunted makes me feel sick if I'm honest.

    Also, I noticed that you said something about people killing lions, but I don't see how hunting other animals is much different really...
    Lions are endangered and should be preserved.

    Deer are not, in fact they were recently classified as Vermin in the UK.
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    I love that you do it with a bow, looks awesome.

    I think that if the hunting is being done to vermin or to control populations on a nature reserve (which I know can be done with very dominant lions) then I don't have a problem, especially if the animals are then going to be eaten by someone.
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    I really don't think killing another animal should be something we relish in. Killing should be a means to an end, and nothing more- whether it be to put down a threat, to control overpopulation or to us or to provide us with meat; it should be (at least in my opinion) just a side effect of that action.

    While I can understand the appeal of stalking and killing your prey, it definitely isn't something I can empathise with- or condone for that matter.
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    (Original post by lamyers1)
    I love that you do it with a bow, looks awesome.

    I think that if the hunting is being done to vermin or to control populations on a nature reserve (which I know can be done with very dominant lions) then I don't have a problem,
    especially if the animals are then going to be eaten by someone.
    Couldn't agree more.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    I see absolutely no issue with the practice so long as it is undertaken humanely and sustainably. I think many who disagree with lack a coherent argument and are frankly, hypocrites, if you eat meat it is difficult to take you seriously when you say you find sustainable hunting morally reprehensible, the two stances simply aren't logically congruent.

    As far OP has made thoroughly sound arguments in favour,
    Hunting can't really be undertaken humanely. You are unnecessarily putting an animal through a whole heap of pain for personal enjoyment. If it was an efficient way of gathering meat (which agree, the living conditions are better) then we'd sustainably raise deer etc. and then kill them humanely. The idea that you're doing it for meat is self-deluding. You are hunting for sport (word used loosely).

    Taking pleasure in causing other's pain might be evolutionarily programmed, but that does not stop it being morally reprehensible. Killing creatures in the harmful way that hunting promotes is just out of order. There is no reason to do it, as enjoyment can easily be obtained from other sources.
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    Agreed, however a thrill doesn't need to come from Danger.

    I get a thrill ocassionally with a well timed Torpedo Volley on Star Trek: Online...I am perfectly safe.
    Similarly, a thrill does not need to come from a sport. In fact, did you know you can have fun without killing anything? Just a thought...
 
 
 
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