Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

When human shields are used, who is more guilty... Watch

    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    People who think that Israel has never/do not use human shields are deluded.

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...154142,00.html

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/8151336.stm

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...95J0FR20130620
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Observatory)
    Please reproduce the text of the UN resolution that shows that Israel is committing crimes against humanity, and has been doing so for the last 70 years. I am not sure that the UN Security Council or General Assembly are able to indict or convict states of war crimes, but let us see what happens.


    How indeed.

    Earlier in the thread you evaluated it as 1.0, now, something between 1.0 and 0.0. So I am asking if this is a real concession (e.g. 0.01), or just a semantic dodge (e.g. 0.99).
    I'm going to leave this, to be honest. I don't understand your probability question, and unless you can show me where I said I'm certain Israel intends to bomb civilians you're just misrepresenting what I've said.

    As for your first demand, I would have to reproduce the ICC Rome Statute, then hunt through 70 years of UN resolution text. I really don't care that much about convincing you.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    Let's say Ukraine was firing missiles at Moscow. Chances are Russia could respond by destroying the launching sites with minimal civilian casualties, since Ukraine' population density is about 200 per square mile. Gaza's population density is about 13,000 per square mile. That would be like if Hong Kong were firing missiles at Guangzhou, and China responded by bringing the rain on Hong Kong, regardless of civilian life.
    No, Russia would invade them and have their leaders head on a platter lol.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    I'm going to leave this, to be honest. I don't understand your probability question, and unless you can show me where I said I'm certain Israel intends to bomb civilians you're just misrepresenting what I've said.

    As for your first demand, I would have to reproduce the ICC Rome Statute, then hunt through 70 years of UN resolution text. I really don't care that much about convincing you.
    You made a completely unjustified accusation and are now pathetically trying to backtrack without actually admitting being wrong. Have a nice day.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Observatory)
    This says the idea was suggested by a General. Can you cite the original source, ideally on the IDF website?
    Just use the sources on the Wiki page.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Just use the sources on the Wiki page.
    None of them are official IDF statements. If I wanted second hand accusations that Israel targets civilians I could just go to $leftwing_broadsheet.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    I'd consider it rather high considering that targeting civilians is part of official Israeli military doctrine.
    A claim which Goldstone himself retracted.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Observatory)
    You made a completely unjustified accusation and are now pathetically trying to backtrack without actually admitting being wrong. Have a nice day.
    I'm not so insecure as to devote so much energy proving myself to people online. If and when I have the time to pull the information together, I'll get back to you. Okay? Have a nice day.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Observatory)
    None of them are official IDF statements. If I wanted second hand accusations that Israel targets civilians I could just go to $leftwing_broadsheet.
    If your list of acceptable sources excludes UN reports and consists entirely of IDF statements I'm not entirely sure how possible it will be to have a balanced debate.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    If your list of acceptable sources excludes UN reports and consists entirely of IDF statements I'm not entirely sure how possible it will be to have a balanced debate.
    I don't think you can get any objective statements really. It seems like everything about this conflict is biased.
    Online

    18
    ReputationRep:
    The cowards who claim to want to be Martyrs yet hide behind innocent, defenceless citizens. They alone are to blame!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    Iron Dome cost a couple hundred million. Israel gets $3bn dollars per annum from the US, and has done since 1985.

    This isn't like eventually hitting someone smaller who's hitting you constantly. This is like waiting for them to hit you so you have the excuse to pummel them until their teeth come loose.
    Yet these costs would be avoided if Hamas wasn't around. It's alright to say the money will come from somewhere but that will not always be the case as history has shown us. What do you expect Israel to do if the USA pulled their financial aid. Israel has to act before Hamas fulfil their jihad fuelled motive and attack Israel at its most vulnerable.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again Hamas have said they will wipe Israel of the face of the earth and so Israel have every right to do what they are doing.

    If I was a rich house owner for example and a poorer household neighbour was plotting against me I will not for decades fund security sitting back doing nothing, I'll remove the problem as would any normal person. You exterminate rats who infest your house not simple protect yourselves from them.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    If your list of acceptable sources excludes UN reports and consists entirely of IDF statements I'm not entirely sure how possible it will be to have a balanced debate.
    Your claim was, "targeting civilians is part of official Israeli military doctrine.". So it's not at all unreasonable to insist on an official source that either generates or propagates Israeli military doctrine. The very thing you've claimed is that we can even look at the IDF's own policy and see an explicit commitment to attack civilians.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MASTER265)
    Yet these costs would be avoided if Hamas wasn't around. It's alright to say the money will come from somewhere but that will not always be the case as history has shown us. What do you expect Israel to do if the USA pulled their financial aid. Israel has to act before Hamas fulfil their jihad fuelled motive and attack Israel at its most vulnerable.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again Hamas have said they will wipe Israel of the face of the earth and so Israel have every right to do what they are doing.

    If I was a rich house owner for example and a poorer household neighbour was plotting against me I will not for decades fund security sitting back doing nothing, I'll remove the problem as would any normal person. You exterminate rats who infest your house not simple protect yourselves from them.
    "I've said it before and I'll say it again Hamas have said they will wipe Israel of the face of the earth and so Israel have every right to do what they are doing."
    Ironic considering you advocate genocide of Arabs in the Middle East
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by broscience123)
    Ironic considering you advocate genocide of Arabs in the Middle East
    I advocate the genocide of terrorist and jihadist related organisations such as Hamas. It's not Israel's fault that Hamas uses human shields and hides within schools, hospitals and UN shelters.

    But as usual in your world Hamas have done nothing wrong and in no way whatsoever to blame for this conflict. If you fail to acknowledge that fact then your input into this forum is wasted because Hamas are a catalyst if you go back to the early days of the conflict, Israel are just responding to the threat.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MASTER265)
    I advocate the genocide of terrorist and jihadist related organisations such as Hamas. It's not Israel's fault that Hamas uses human shields and hides within schools, hospitals and UN shelters.

    But as usual in your world Hamas have done nothing wrong and in no way whatsoever to blame for this conflict. If you fail to acknowledge that fact then your input into this forum is wasted because Hamas are a catalyst if you go back to the early days of the conflict, Israel are just responding to the threat.


    You called for the middle east region to be nuked (bar Israel), thus calling for and supporting the murder of millions of innocents.

    You lost all credibility br0.
    Attached Images
     
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by broscience123)


    You called for the middle east region to be nuked (bar Israel), thus calling for and supporting the murder of millions of innocents.

    You lost all credibility br0.
    Because majority of the Middle East is linked to a terrorist or jihadist organisation. Look at the land ISIS and the Syrian rebels have seized. It's a hell hole
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MASTER265)
    Because majority of the Middle East is linked to a terrorist or jihadist organisation. Look at the land ISIS and the Syrian rebels have seized. It's a hell hole
    Typical Zionist response, not being able to differentiate between civilians and combatants. You would fit well with the IDF :yy:
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by samba)
    No, Russia would invade them and have their leaders head on a platter lol.
    Nuanced and valuable contribution, well done.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Hamas using human shields is a rubbish claim. I'm of the opinion that Hamas operatives are in the 4th most densely packed area in the world, that also happens to be ghettoised. They have no choice but to move amongst civilians because they live amongst them. That isn't them actively enforcing some insane initiative to purposely hide amongst civilians, it's just that they don't have a choice. Hamas aren't an organised military organisation with enhanced capabilities, most of them probably had jobs before becoming operatives/members of Hamas and probably live with family. Regardless, this doesn't give Israel the right to target areas with high civilian population (or civilian buildings; hospitals, schools, a disabled center) and indiscriminately bomb civilians despite very expensive military technology I assumed capable of targetting only locations where Hamas operate. Clearly, Israel are not targetting Hamas as the statistics demonstrate, so this whole talk of human shields is ridiculous.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What newspaper do you read/prefer?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.