Article: The Green Party has its say on TSR Watch

TsarBoy
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#41
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(Original post by MiddleHendon)
welcome to you too
My names Ben I'm standing for MP near Middlesex University, I'm 28 years old and studied chemistry at Nottingham where I started my Green journey. Feel free to ask me any questions about how I would build half a million new genuinely affordable homes, what we're doing to fight for a living wage, or what I think of the NHS, safe streets, or media bias!
I expect you plan on building over our unspoilt countryside. We wouldn't need ugly amounts of housing if it wasn't for leftists like you opening our borders. Immigration is by far, the main driver of population. Elephant in the room.
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MiddleHendon
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"On top of the benefits already available, or is this just JSA plus an extra fiver? If it's the former, like most things, pulling the money out of your ass? If the latter, big deal."
.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't dwell too much on this, even if you're a student, it's complex stuff. Basically the difference is that JSA is conditional, but the BIG is for all, and therefore a good benefit. The money spent assessing JSA claims would be freed up.

I don't recognise this guy's figures on tax. And I don't recognise the Tax dodgers alliance! I think the poorest pay around 80%, whereas the 1% richest should be paying around 100%.
But I agree I prefer Lond citizens' voluntary scheme to my party's policy to make the living wage compulsory; I own a small business myself.

Good question on how we'd rebalance the economy. This was one thing Cameron promised to do but blatantly failed.
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MiddleHendon
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(Original post by TsarBoy)
I expect you plan on building over our unspoilt countryside. We wouldn't need ugly amounts of housing if it wasn't for leftists like you opening our borders. Immigration is by far, the main driver of population. Elephant in the room.
Whilst many Greens agree with you; The main way the Greens would stop mass immigration to London is looking at the root causes: war, violence, colonialism, destruction abroad. I recommend you add to your reading list "The Blood Never Dried" and "Empires of Profit". Always good to read something you disagree with. Whilst also pointing towards the benefits of immigration (I myself am Jewish). The Green MP is on record arguing that immigrants should be given the vote in general elections.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by TsarBoy)
I expect you plan on building over our unspoilt countryside. We wouldn't need ugly amounts of housing if it wasn't for leftists like you opening our borders. Immigration is by far, the main driver of population. Elephant in the room.
It was right wing neoliberals that opened the borders. Just saying.
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TsarBoy
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(Original post by MiddleHendon)
Whilst many Greens agree with you; The main way the Greens would stop mass immigration to London is looking at the root causes: war, violence, colonialism, destruction abroad. I recommend you add to your reading list "The Blood Never Dried" and "Empires of Profit". Always good to read something you disagree with. Whilst also pointing towards the benefits of immigration (I myself am Jewish). The Green MP is on record arguing that immigrants should be given the vote in general elections.
Ah, so you're an ethnomasochist. ALL peoples have been guilty of atrocities. Here's a question - how long do former colonial countries have to be punished for them? How long do we need to have our identity erased for? Is there any end limit to it in your eyes or is it only at the point of complete negation? And finally, why does it only apply for European former colonialist countries? One of the largest colonial countries in colonial history was the Turkish Empire; do we do this to Turkey as well? Oh and you're Jewish, what punishment should the Jews have for their role in the persecution of the Palestinian peoples?
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MiddleHendon
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(Original post by TsarBoy)
Ah, so you're an ethnomasochist. ALL peoples have been guilty of atrocities. Here's a question - how long do former colonial countries have to be punished for them?...Oh and you're Jewish, what punishment should the Jews have for their role in the persecution of the Palestinian peoples?
I am a Green so my core value is peace. I believe there will be peace. Even the state of Israel will one day have to learn that hurting an other is just hurting oneself. The status quo is unsustainable.
Eat on this: Neoliberal governments spend trillions of pounds on weapons.
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Good bloke
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(Original post by MiddleHendon)
. Feel free to ask me any questions
Brighton council has one of the worst records in recycling domestic waste in the whole of the country - it manages to recycle as little as 30% of domestic waste. Plenty of councils manage to be more than twice as effective and recycle 65%. If this is an example of the competence and effectiveness of Green politicians on such a core issue for the green agenda why should anyone vote for you?
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by MiddleHendon)
welcome to you too
My names Ben I'm standing for MP near Middlesex University, I'm 28 years old and studied chemistry at Nottingham where I started my Green journey. Feel free to ask me any questions about how I would build half a million new genuinely affordable homes, what we're doing to fight for a living wage, or what I think of the NHS, safe streets, or media bias!
How heavily are we all going to be taxed for this? Bringing back the old 99.25% income tax rate and apply it to everybody earning more than the average income to punish them for being greedy?
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TsarBoy
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Conveniently edit my post without the questions you don't want to answer haha.
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MiddleHendon
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Let's not pre-judge the result in Brighton & Hove. Their local elections are in less than 6 months. My own view is that when you have a multi billion pound waste incinerator down the road, that damages the recycling numbers.
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MiddleHendon
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(Original post by TsarBoy)
Conveniently edit my post without the questions you don't want to answer haha.
I don't answer racist questions.
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MiddleHendon
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
How heavily are we all going to be taxed for this? Bringing back the old 99.25% income tax rate and apply it to everybody earning more than the average income to punish them for being greedy?
The Green Party would tax bad things (property) and reward good things (work). We will release a fully costed manifesto shortly following our 2010 general election manifesto.
However can I point out that you can tax more than 100% income. For people earning less than a living wage that's the reality they're facing because their income is less than their outgoings. So why should landlords who make a profit from the LHA, homelessness and empty property why should they not be subject to a wealth-tax? There are some pretty shocking stats about land ownership. We emphasise the empty properties and under-used houses as the cause of the perceived shortage.
Someone earlier made a good point about what's "normal". Including the Green Party implies a different frame of what's acceptable in debate. The state's method of control is to allow vigorous debate between 4 parties that are all neo-liberal. Greens imagine a world where there's enough to go round and people aren't starving in the 6th richest country in the world.
In that sense TTIP is "a very bad idea", and redistribution of wealth is nothing to be afraid of.
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TsarBoy
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(Original post by MiddleHendon)
I don't answer racist questions.
Would that be the tolerant left shutting down debate again! Out of touch for the people you claim to represent (working class) is an understatement. Party for the trendy middle class Guardian luvvies and students who believe A-level sociology is the epitome of life's hardships. Oppose having your nation flooded with immigrants? Racist. Oppose same-sex marriage? Homophobe. Support familialism? Sexist. These words are a weapon to shut down debate against people who challenge your sickening agenda. Well it doesn't wash anymore. Europe is shifting to the right as our people gradually awaken to the evil of cultural marxism.
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Good bloke
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(Original post by MiddleHendon)
Let's not pre-judge the result in Brighton & Hove. Their local elections are in less than 6 months. My own view is that when you have a multi billion pound waste incinerator down the road, that damages the recycling numbers.
Nonsense! Many councils have waste incinerators in their area and achieve twice as much recycling as Brighton. Anyway, the council can choose not to use it.

The truth is that Brighton's council is incompetent, and even incapable of putting into practice its own core policy - safeguarding the environment. The fact that elections are in six month's time emphases that the Green party has had almost four years in power and is still getting it badly wrong.

You come across as someone who doesn't care that the council is incompetent as long as it clings to power and can go on damaging the environment and people's lives and pockets.
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Green_Pink
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(Original post by Good bloke)
Nonsense! Many councils have waste incinerators in their area and achieve twice as much recycling as Brighton. Anyway, the council can choose not to use it.

The truth is that Brighton's council is incompetent, and even incapable of putting into practice its own core policy - safeguarding the environment. The fact that elections are in six month's time emphases that the Green party has had almost four years in power and is still getting it badly wrong.

You come across as someone who doesn't care that the council is incompetent as long as it clings to power and can go on damaging the environment and people's lives and pockets.
Whilst I do have a fairly low opinion of the competency of Brighton Council, to be fair to the Greens they have only had minority control coupled with an incredibly obstructive Labour Party in opposition who often sided with the Tories over the Greens for no reason other than to make them look bad.
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Good bloke
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(Original post by Green_Pink)
Whilst I do have a fairly low opinion of the competency of Brighton Council, to be fair to the Greens they have only had minority control coupled with an incredibly obstructive Labour Party in opposition who often sided with the Tories over the Greens for no reason other than to make them look bad.
I can't believe the other parties have voted against Green proposals to improve recycling.

Brighton's record is woeful, and it is fairly easy to see why. There is no far too much reliance on people taking their recycling items to a communal bin or to one or two electrical item collection points. The councils with a good record collect all recycling from one unsorted bin from each home (with some exceptions for flats, of course) so the householder has to do virtually nothing apart from put the bin out each week.

Brighton, additionally, doesn't recycle a very wide range of plastics. The good councils manage to process a far wider range.
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by MiddleHendon)
The Green Party would tax bad things (property) and reward good things (work). We will release a fully costed manifesto shortly following our 2010 general election manifesto.
And who is to decide what is good and what is bad? By the sounds of it you want everybody to be living on council estates, people will love that.


However can I point out that you can tax more than 100% income. For people earning less than a living wage...
Honstly, I cannot take people seriously when they start talking about living wages, especially outside London since in full time employment you earn above the living wage if not done in the flawed way it is, that is basing rUK on London, even the London rate is questionable, they seem to assume nobody has working legs since nobody ever walks, and then they forget about the government propping up most of those that are below the "LLW". Then, additionally, you get that even out of work you're propped up enough.

...that's the reality they're facing because their income is less than their outgoings.
And there is a distinct difference being taxed ON more than their income and being taxed FOR more than their income. Of course, it's doubly tentative that they're actually being taxed on it all given that the little they are spending should almost all be VAT free

So why should landlords who make a profit from the LHA, homelessness and empty property why should they not be subject to a wealth-tax? There are some pretty shocking stats about land ownership. We emphasise the empty properties and under-used houses as the cause of the perceived shortage.
Because they put up their money and paid their tax for that property, and then go on to pay more tax on the takings. What are these shocking stats, are they the "oh my, those that can afford property own nearly all of it" ones? And you still haven't said where these 500,000 empty homes are, nor the reason for their vacancy.

Someone earlier made a good point about what's "normal". Including the Green Party implies a different frame of what's acceptable in debate. The state's method of control is to allow vigorous debate between 4 parties that are all neo-liberal. Greens imagine a world where there's enough to go round and people aren't starving in the 6th richest country in the world.
In that sense TTIP is "a very bad idea", and redistribution of wealth is nothing to be afraid of.
I think you mean to say that it is to allow vigorous debate between 4 parties that actually have a hope of holding some influence, although for the Lib Dems and UKIP it's barely, tbh I wouldn't have them their apart from to make things a bit more varied and to apply pressure on Lab and Con; I don't think they're going to be particularly thrilling, I expect it to be Cameron and Farage running rings around Miliband and Clegg. And I really do not see why people take offense to TTIP, since the only arguments against seem questionable at best; I fail to see how it would lead to privatisation of the NHS.
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tinyflame
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(Original post by TsarBoy)
Would that be the tolerant left shutting down debate again! Out of touch for the people you claim to represent (working class) is an understatement. Party for the trendy middle class Guardian luvvies and students who believe A-level sociology is the epitome of life's hardships. Oppose having your nation flooded with immigrants? Racist. Oppose same-sex marriage? Homophobe. Support familialism? Sexist. These words are a weapon to shut down debate against people who challenge your sickening agenda. Well it doesn't wash anymore. Europe is shifting to the right as our people gradually awaken to the evil of cultural marxism.
What is the point of "curtural marxism", you seem to believe there is some sort of mass conspiracy.
Almost like those "Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white" types?
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MiddleHendon
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Re: TsarBoy he attacked me because I said I'm Jewish. That's below the belt! If you oppose same-sex marriages and are not gay, as far as I'm concerned yes, major homophobe, especially MY MP! I'm not shutting down the debate I'm opening it up.

Regarding the economic arguments, first of all you mis-understand the arguments against TTIP. It's not that it would privatise the NHS but it would make it very hard to reverse those losses. For instance Labour want to reverse the 2012 Health and Social Care Act which encouraged "any willing provider". But as a Green I don't make the health argument; that's Labour because they fought the 2014 elections being pro-TTIP but with reservations about the NHS.
Education has been marketised in this country in the last decade. In my own council they voted to give catering contracts to local schools away to corporations. Again, what you have to understand about TTIP is the ISDS mechanism has a chilling effect making it hard to reverse that marketisation. The Green Party stand for the common good.

Recycling and Brighton: I'm not defending the indefensible but yes, Tory and Labour councillors were made to vote against recycling because in order to take back control of the mess of out-sourced recycling contracts you would have to pay a penality. That is not financially possible because they voted against the proposed council tax increase the Greens wanted. And by the way the Greens want it to be progressive whereas Brighton and Hove Labour voted to get rid of council tax benefit!

Jammy Dual's comments:
Thanks for these. I hate to sound like a broken record regarding renationalisation, but I think everyone living on council estates is a real option! Either that or the private sector has to be regulated so far that it would be the same thing effectively. The key thing that all the parties are promising is to mix it up a bit. If a benefit is only for the poor, it's a poor benefit. What did someone say on the Save Earls Court video on youtube recently about "gated communities".

Regarding the Living wage I am a Londoner hence standing for MP in London and 80% of Londoners and virtually all community organisations are demanding that we talk about the living wage and that's why we committed publicly to do so. People may be getting by on paper after getting benefits but don't want to be on benefits as there's stigma around it.

Regarding VAT yes the poor pay a higher percent of their income in VAT than the rich do. Fuel for private jets? VAT-free Books? VAT-free. Then look at **** and booze which let's face it some poor people do enjoy; massively taxed including VAT. Repairs to the leaky roof and plumbing? 20% VAT please. Self employed "white van man"? VAT applies to everything. Petrol and diesel for work? you guessed it. But wealthy farmers have tax-free diesel.

Regarding framing the parties, the Lib Dems are finished. They are polling at about 7% that's 3 points behind the Greens. Caroline Lucas MP is on track to keep her seat. I really feel quite strongly, as to most people, the Greens should be included. So thanks for having us.
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Fair1988
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(Original post by MiddleHendon)
The Green Party would tax bad things (property) and reward good things (work). We will release a fully costed manifesto shortly following our 2010 general election manifesto.
However can I point out that you can tax more than 100% income. For people earning less than a living wage that's the reality they're facing because their income is less than their outgoings. So why should landlords who make a profit from the LHA, homelessness and empty property why should they not be subject to a wealth-tax? There are some pretty shocking stats about land ownership. We emphasise the empty properties and under-used houses as the cause of the perceived shortage.
Someone earlier made a good point about what's "normal". Including the Green Party implies a different frame of what's acceptable in debate. The state's method of control is to allow vigorous debate between 4 parties that are all neo-liberal. Greens imagine a world where there's enough to go round and people aren't starving in the 6th richest country in the world.
In that sense TTIP is "a very bad idea", and redistribution of wealth is nothing to be afraid of.
I am just an ordinary hard-working person and everything I have got is from my job. In the past five years I have been worse off due to the tax raised and benefit cut. I don't think it is fair for the rich to have their tax cut while all hard working families have to have tax raised and benefits cut to help Britain to pay the huge deficit...

Having said all that, I don't like the idea of redistribution because under high tax with a back up of free citizens' income and free citizens's pension people will definitely lose the incentive to work.

No one wants to work for other people if they don't have to but every one wants to live at someone else's expense if they are allowed to. I believe this is part of the human nature. That's why we need to keep the balance of the self-interest and greed---we need to let the self-interest and greed motivate people to work hard and do business to make profit and create wealth for a whole country but we also need to be aware of some people who refuse to work hard but rely on the welfare system!

Welfare system is designed for the most needy people, not for people with an excuse not to work hard. so, so called free citizens' income and free citizens' pension won't get my vote.

Under the Green party, our nation's finance might last for a couple of years but won't last long because high tax and high spending and low morale to create wealth simply don't get along well.

I would rather work hard with most of income in my hand, rather than give it all to the government, because any government is just as self-interested as the rest of us and I don't trust any one.

However, in reality, we have to elect one government, so let's pick the better one among the bad ones but definitely not the Green.

And there are far too many crazy and childish things in the Green's manifesto that can't convince me.

After all, it's incentive to make people work that make the whole country and the whole world to go around and the more power you give to the government the more ground you lose.
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