Employing people with convictions eg rape Watch

hi2u_uk
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#41
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#41
(Original post by james22)
Then what is the insentive for them to behave? With the chance to halve their sentence, they aren't going to want to misbehave so we have a better enviroment within the prisons.
anyone who misbehaves in prison should have their sentence increased. rapists etc can rot their if this is the game they want to play
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james22
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#42
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(Original post by hi2u_uk)
anyone who misbehaves in prison should have their sentence increased. rapists etc can rot their if this is the game they want to play
Then you would need a whole new trial with a new jury every time they misbehaved. You cannot lock someone up without trial, and you cannot just extend their sentence beyond what a judge set without another trial.

Unless you support locking people up without trial?
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hi2u_uk
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#43
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(Original post by james22)
Then you would need a whole new trial with a new jury every time they misbehaved. You cannot lock someone up without trial, and you cannot just extend their sentence beyond what a judge set without another trial.

Unless you support locking people up without trial?
as i said there is too soft an approach to criminals either change the law so you dont need another trial or if someone is committing crimes whilst in prison then send them to trial . What exactly is the problem with this ?
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james22
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#44
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(Original post by hi2u_uk)
as i said there is too soft an approach to criminals either change the law so you dont need another trial or if someone is committing crimes whilst in prison then send them to trial . What exactly is the problem with this ?
It's very expensive to have a trial for every case of bad behavior. Far simpler for the judge to simply sentence the criminal to double what he thinks the minimum will be, which is what happens now.
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-Native Briton-
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#45
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(Original post by james22)
You haven't answered the points I raised. How do we maintain order in the prisons?

What insentive do the prisoners have for behaving?
Simple we segregate them or we impose harsher penalties. misbehaviour in prisons should not be an excuse to let out rapists. misbehaviour in prisons is not even a significant problem
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james22
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#46
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(Original post by -Native Briton-)
Simple we segregate them or we impose harsher penalties. misbehaviour in prisons should not be an excuse to let out rapists. misbehaviour in prisons is not even a significant problem
What penalties do you suggest?

Misbehavior is not a problem because prisoners have something to look forward to that can be taken away.
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-Native Briton-
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#47
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(Original post by james22)
What penalties do you suggest?

Misbehavior is not a problem because prisoners have something to look forward to that can be taken away.
Oh the poor rapists and murderers !!
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mojojojo101
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#48
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This thread highlights exactly why reoffending rates are so high and why they wont ever come down without a significant change in public opinion.

Think about it pragmatically, if when you get out of jail you are unemployable for the rest of your life then you're left with about 3 options; beg, steal or kill yourself.
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Clip
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#49
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
This thread highlights exactly why reoffending rates are so high and why they wont ever come down without a significant change in public opinion.

Think about it pragmatically, if when you get out of jail you are unemployable for the rest of your life then you're left with about 3 options; beg, steal or kill yourself.
In terms of social policy, TSR tends toward the extremes. It's down to the extreme self-righteousness and lack of reality.
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MNem
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#50
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Dont people reoffend BECAUSE they can't get employed and integrate back into society..? I can see where you're coming from, but you can't just hide from ex criminals. Some jobs such as teaching are immediately closed off to some sorts of criminals. But ex burglars etc need to be employed so they aren't forced to commit crime again?
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Simes
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#51
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(Original post by MNem)
But ex burglars etc need to be employed so they aren't forced to commit crime again?
Most murderers never commit a second murder. They have dealt with the person who was the problem in their life, they get a shock at their own action, they move on. It can be argued that for a domestic murder, a suspended sentence is probably appropriate.

Re-offending amongst thieves and drug users is so high that they seem to be impossible to rehabilitate. They may as well get a life sentence for their second offence.
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Truths
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#52
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Because if they already had served their time, why punish them twice? As long as they are not a masseur or a teacher or something, I don't see the problem.
(Original post by Lord Harold)
I watched a documentary a while back about this Japanese bloke in France who murdered and cannibalised a woman he was at uni with.
Due to some sort of legal loophole he was convicted but didn't have to serve a sentence- in fact he is still free now. Anyway it said that he had applied for over 10,000 jobs and was turned down for every single one apart from a job in a school of all places, because the headmaster admired his honesty in using his real name on the application. Just before he was able to start, other members of staff protested against it and thankfully kept him out!


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Oh I watched that documentary. I couldn't get through all of it tho. It was too creepy.
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vis break
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#53
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No. I would hire someone convicted, because without one you're just depriving someone of being able to have a meaningful life and a way to provide for themselves.
IMO if you have served the time you should be given another chance.
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Simes
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#54
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(Original post by vis break)
IMO if you have served the time you should be given another chance.
The argument here being, once the person has been punished, the punishment is complete.

I think the counter-argument being put forward is that rapists in particular should be punished in some way for life.
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james22
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#55
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(Original post by Simes)
The argument here being, once the person has been punished, the punishment is complete.

I think the counter-argument being put forward is that rapists in particular should be punished in some way for life.
If they don't work they get benefits. Surely getting benefits is less of a punishment than having to work?
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Simes
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#56
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(Original post by james22)
If they don't work they get benefits. Surely getting benefits is less of a punishment than having to work?
I agree. I also think it is better for society if they are having to spend a lot of their time at work / commuting rather than sitting about at home dwelling on stuff or just hanging about. Having to socialise in a work environment must also be good for normalising behaviour.
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Lord Harold
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#57
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(Original post by Truths)
Because if they already had served their time, why punish them twice? As long as they are not a masseur or a teacher or something, I don't see the problem.


Oh I watched that documentary. I couldn't get through all of it tho. It was too creepy.
Oh it was disturbing. It's not as bad towards the end- it's quite interesting he basically says that he still has cannibalistic urges etc and a whole load of other disgusting things.
The man is a sicko.
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Jkruger1
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#58
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(Original post by hi2u_uk)
I dont understand why anyone would employ someone with a conviction eg for rape. In Scotland there is an advert basically saying that being over the drink drive limit will make you unemployable so don't drink drive.

I wouldn't employ a handyman who was a convicted burgler, i wouldnt be comfortable with a doctor , nurse, physio etc who had a criminal conviction taking care of me

As an employer in any field id go for people of good character ie those who have never committed a criminal offence especially one such as rape. These people are not hard to find

Why is it people seem to think its ok for a convicted rapist to be given a very high salaried job regardless of whether he has served his time or not i completely dont understand unless there is absolutely noone else who can do the job

If i am ever in the position of recruiting for a job then i'm sorry but people with such convictions would get nowhere as i just wouldn't trust them
You would not know if someone had a criminal conviction or not. The law requires that only "unspent" convictions are declared unless the job is in the caring professions, with vulnerable people or falls under national security.

50% of the adult population have criminal convictions. The law is like this for a good reason. If you stopped a convicted person from getting legal employment you would be forcefully making it impossible for them to rehabilitate themselves and you would be creating an ever increasing criminal community.



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hi2u_uk
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#59
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(Original post by Jkruger1)
You would not know if someone had a criminal conviction or not. The law requires that only "unspent" convictions are declared unless the job is in the caring professions, with vulnerable people or falls under national security.

50% of the adult population have criminal convictions. The law is like this for a good reason. If you stopped a convicted person from getting legal employment you would be forcefully making it impossible for them to rehabilitate themselves and you would be creating an ever increasing criminal community.



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Perhaps if it was more visible eg by making ex rapists declare their crimes on job application forms and then seeing that they were unable to get jobs (or had to explain their actions to sympathetic people such as those on this site) . Maybe the number of rapists would reduce because people would think twice as they would know its something they couldn't just brush under the carpet after a few years
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Simes
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#60
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(Original post by hi2u_uk)
Perhaps if it was more visible eg by making ex rapists declare their crimes on job application forms and then seeing that they were unable to get jobs
That effectively happens anyway for people that have been in prison.

(Original post by hi2u_uk)
Perhaps if it was more visible eg by making ex rapists declare their crimes on job application forms and then seeing that they were unable to get jobs (or had to explain their actions to sympathetic people such as those on this site) . Maybe the number of rapists would reduce because people would think twice as they would know its something they couldn't just brush under the carpet after a few years
Sex offenders seem to be a particularly difficult class of criminal in that no form of punishment works as a deterrent.
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