Turn on thread page Beta
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by e aí rapaz)
    There's nothing wrong with selling porn magazines to adults. But any institution has the right to ban it if they choose. A university would probably deem it inappropriate (which I would agree with in this instance, and I'm not a porn prude or anything), and it has no bearing on "freedom of expression".



    Equally the university has the freedom to choose not to sell certain things.
    You should read carefully. This is not the university. The university is a private (semi-public) corporation and they can do whatever they want that is legal, but this is the students' union. They should reflect the views of their students, not their personal taste telling anyone what is good for them.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by GorlimtheUnhappy)
    From the definition of enlighten, you should know I'm asking you to introduce new questions that these specific events have prompted.

    Freedom of speech - done
    Censorship - done
    Muslims reaction to the above topics - done
    The validity of hate speech laws with regards to freedom of speech - done
    The status of freedom of speech in the West - done though I don't see how this is relevant to CS
    Moral questions outside of legislation (e.g. Is it right to mock religion?) - done
    The value of political correctness - I always find this a funny one. People complaining about censorship (supposedly a synonym for political correctness) are advocating for the censorship of people they claim to be "politically correct"

    An example of an interesting questions/event could be a devoutly religious individual (muslim or otherwise) killing himself (and his/her family) after seeing the CH cartoon or a state-funded cartoon being commissioned in China that satirises revered individuals. Why do I find this interesting you might ask - because this would be a new reaction to satirical cartoons. The CH cartoons don't come close to being profound to those that are intellectually honest to themselves...

    Maybe you could link me to your study into the quality of teaching at universities in cases where these stupid lecturers have been teaching their chosen areas of expertise wrong all this time!
    Ah, just as I expected.

    There is no valuable discussion to be had with someone who owns and shifts the goalposts. I don't think being "new" has ever been a pre-requisite to being interesting. Besides, this is opening a public discourse on the above debates and so they are "new" to many people, but I know this won't count for you.

    I hope you feel satisfied with accusing others of intellectual dishonesty whilst employing intellectually dishonest tactics.

    Also, I didn't say lecturers are stupid, I said banning those things is stupid. Learn to read.
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    This has been already predicted.
    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...3#.VLeeaiusU1k

    (Original post by e aí rapaz)


    Equally the university has the freedom to choose not to sell certain things.
    University are not private groups whether they like it or not, they receive quite a bit of public funding.

    Regardless, any university worth its name should uphold freedom of speech and freedom of expression and dedicated themselves to academic freedom.

    No ideas should be too extreme to debate.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by clh_hilary)
    You should read carefully. This is not the university. The university is a private (semi-public) corporation and they can do whatever they want that is legal, but this is the students' union. They should reflect the views of their students, not their personal taste telling anyone what is good for them.
    (Original post by Falcatas)
    This has been already predicted.
    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...3#.VLeeaiusU1k



    University are not private groups whether they like it or not, they receive quite a bit of public funding.

    Regardless, any university worth its name should uphold freedom of speech and freedom of expression and dedicated themselves to academic freedom.

    No ideas should be too extreme to debate.
    So then you must believe that more people want the magazine to be stocked that want it not to be stocked?

    Since that wasn't mentioned in the OP, why do we assume the former rather than the latter? Perhaps the SU is doing it's job well and supporting the opinion of their students by not stocking it. Of course that wouldn't make a controversial story.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by e aí rapaz)
    So then you must believe that more people want the magazine to be stocked that want it not to be stocked?

    Since that wasn't mentioned in the OP, why do we assume the former rather than the latter? Perhaps the SU is doing it's job well and supporting the opinion of their students by not stocking it. Of course that wouldn't make a controversial story.
    So we should ban everything before we know that the majority wants it?

    Maybe we should apply your logic everywhere, too. Did the law say British citizens are allowed to post on The Student Room​?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by clh_hilary)
    So we should ban everything before we know that the majority wants it?

    Maybe we should apply your logic everywhere, too. Did the law say British citizens are allowed to post on The Student Room​?
    That's a bit of a leap.

    The union presumably didn't stock the magazine before (because let's face it - nobody did), so their decision was, will more of their students want them to start stocking it now than prefer them not to.

    All I'm saying is that we, as readers of some inflammatory twitter exchange, do not know the answer to that question, and I would certainly assume that the SU itself would know better than we do.

    That's not even going into the fact that they have this "safe space" policy, whatever that means, but I have to assume that the policy was implemented with the approval of the students, and if the magazine violates that, then that's a pretty good indicator for them.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BitWindy)
    Ah, just as I expected.

    There is no valuable discussion to be had with someone who owns and shifts the goalposts. I don't think being "new" has ever been a pre-requisite to being interesting. Besides, this is opening a public discourse on the above debates and so they are "new" to many people, but I know this won't count for you.

    I hope you feel satisfied with accusing others of intellectual dishonesty whilst employing intellectually dishonest tactics.

    Also, I didn't say lecturers are stupid, I said banning those things is stupid. Learn to read.
    Look up the definition of enlightening then maybe you could learn to read or at least process what you do read

    It isn't "new" to many people - CH hadn't gained much public interest before the tragic murders. There is nothing profound about those images and you've failed to demonstrate they are profound on 2 occasions now. There was a LOT of public debate when the Danish cartoonist drew similar images but of course you've conveniently forgotten about that.

    I've employed no intellectual dishonesty, maybe justify your claim next time? Even if I had, that is in no way relevant to my point.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by e aí rapaz)
    That's a bit of a leap.

    The union presumably didn't stock the magazine before (because let's face it - nobody did), so their decision was, will more of their students want them to start stocking it now than prefer them not to.

    All I'm saying is that we, as readers of some inflammatory twitter exchange, do not know the answer to that question, and I would certainly assume that the SU itself would know better than we do.

    That's not even going into the fact that they have this "safe space" policy, whatever that means, but I have to assume that the policy was implemented with the approval of the students, and if the magazine violates that, then that's a pretty good indicator for them.
    Sabbatical officers are not even students any more. Without a proper consultation or a council discussion (neither happened), they won't know their students on this particular item any better than we do.

    They don't have to stock it, but they don't have ban it. Meaning, if there are calls from students to stock it, they should unless they receive complaints from at least one student.

    The 'safe space' policy was irrelevant. I don't know if it's passed by their council, but you can then ban everything because anything is offensive to some people. If anything, it only warrants the SU's rights to immediately remove items people have complained about.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by clh_hilary)
    It is up to the university as they are a private (semi-public) corporation, but this is not the university, this is the students'​ union.
    You're right. I hope there is dialogue between the students and the student union which addresses this issue. Perhaps some copies should be acquired for academic purposes but I would support the union if it chose to regularly withhold from subscribing to those kinds of materials and instead make an exception for this particular instance.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by GorlimtheUnhappy)
    You're right. I hope there is dialogue between the students and the student union which addresses this issue. Perhaps some copies should be acquired for academic purposes but I would support the union if it chose to regularly withhold from subscribing to those kinds of materials and instead make an exception for this particular instance.
    There should be, now. Or when term starts and council meets.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Also, there actually is a poll on The Tab.

    76.05%, or 1251 votes, said they will not ban the magazine.

    Only 17.39%, or 286 votes, supported the decision.

    Whilst this does not mean Bristol students would think exactly the same, it doesn't seem likely that this move by the 'students' union' is supported by students.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by GorlimtheUnhappy)
    Look up the definition of enlightening then maybe you could learn to read or at least process what you do read

    It isn't "new" to many people - CH hadn't gained much public interest before the tragic murders. There is nothing profound about those images and you've failed to demonstrate they are profound on 2 occasions now. There was a LOT of public debate when the Danish cartoonist drew similar images but of course you've conveniently forgotten about that.

    I've employed no intellectual dishonesty, maybe justify your claim next time? Even if I had, that is in no way relevant to my point.
    I'm not sure you know what enlighten means, but I'll satisfy your request:

    "give (someone) greater knowledge and understanding about a subject or situation."

    Still not getting your point.

    Still, you continue with your highly specific and unrealistic definition of what is interesting. I only said that it is "new" to many people to fulfil this ridiculous definition, though I will stand by the fact that it has sparked public discourse. The very existence of this thread and others like it stand as concrete evidence of this.

    You have stretched the definition of interesting from catching attention to including some esoteric concept of "new", claiming that the fact that you asked to be "enlightened" justifies this.

    Either you are intellectually dishonest in your conscious employment of these tactics or intellectually deficient in your ignorance of them.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BitWindy)
    I'm not sure you know what enlighten means, but I'll satisfy your request:

    "give (someone) greater knowledge and understanding about a subject or situation."

    Still not getting your point.

    Still, you continue with your highly specific and unrealistic definition of what is interesting. I only said that it is "new" to many people to fulfil this ridiculous definition, though I will stand by the fact that it has sparked public discourse. The very existence of this thread and others like it stand as concrete evidence of this.

    You have stretched the definition of interesting from catching attention to including some esoteric concept of "new", claiming that the fact that you asked to be "enlightened" justifies this.

    Either you are intellectually dishonest in your conscious employment of these tactics or intellectually deficient in your ignorance of them.
    So you can't process what you read - I see.
    I never said a concept has to be new to be interesting. I asked for an enlightening reason why something is interesting - ie. as you so competently pasted in - something which could give me a greater understanding on a subject - i.e. something that I didn't understand or know before or simply put, something new.

    So you're wrong on all accounts.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Das Auto)
    Anything should be allowed to be published. Anything should be allowed to be ignored. People choose to be offended. Nothing offends me at all because I simply refuse to let it.
    So Abu Hamza should be free to preach where ever he wants?

    Material that radicalises people to join ISIS is ok to publish in papers?

    Haven't thought this through have you.
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by e aí rapaz)
    So then you must believe that more people want the magazine to be stocked that want it not to be stocked?

    Since that wasn't mentioned in the OP, why do we assume the former rather than the latter? Perhaps the SU is doing it's job well and supporting the opinion of their students by not stocking it. Of course that wouldn't make a controversial story.
    Just sounds like an excuse not to stock it if there are still many that do.
    It shouldn't be just a majority to decide.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by clh_hilary)
    There are notable differences between an ethnicity or a race and a religion, and I'm sure you have some other people explained to you already.

    In the meantime I'll go and do something more meaningful.
    PRSOM

    (Original post by Das Auto)
    Anything should be allowed to be published. Anything should be allowed to be ignored. People choose to be offended. Nothing offends me at all because I simply refuse to let it.
    This.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    PRSOM
    This never works. Maybe you should rep me tomorrow.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by clh_hilary)
    This never works. Maybe you should rep me tomorrow.
    ....Maybe. :cool:
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    I wonder how many religious speakers have been invited under Bristol SU's nose who have uttered comments which people may find offensive or jeopardise their "safe space"?
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by GorlimtheUnhappy)
    So you can't process what you read - I see.
    I never said a concept has to be new to be interesting. I asked for an enlightening reason why something is interesting - ie. as you so competently pasted in - something which could give me a greater understanding on a subject - i.e. something that I didn't understand or know before or simply put, something new.

    So you're wrong on all accounts.
    You're ****ing crazy, aren't you?

    You asked for, to competently paste, a "single interesting question that could arise from those images" or "the events that followed".

    By your own petard be hoisted. This codswallop about "enlightenment" only blossomed into goalpost shifting afterwards. Suddenly an irrelevant word came to dictate what counts as interesting.

    You declared that I should know from the definition of enlighten, that you wanted "NEW" (and that's a quote) questions in order for there to have been a "single interesting question that could arise from those images".

    How can you expect me to process what I read when you cannot process what you write?
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: January 16, 2015
Poll
Do you think parents should charge rent?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.