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    (Original post by william walker)
    I don't think a single person voted for Winston Churchill, but he still won WW2. I don't think a single person voted for John Churchill, but he still won the War of Spanish Succession. Voting is meaningless, in fact rather damaging.
    Winston Churchill was a racist who's lauded as a hero because he was the prime minister at the time when the army, and mostly America, won the Second World War. The fact that you don't believe people should have the right to vote for who runs their country is quite worrying


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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Yes they did, as he was an MP. You could make the argument that there was no election to make him Prime Minister for his first term, but that's the case for plenty of PMs.



    Which hardly anyone really cares that much about.
    No one voted for him to be PM in WW2.

    I care, I have a portrait of John Churchill on my wall. Along with The thin red line and The death of general Wolfe. Of course the War of Spanish Succession, 7 Years war and Crimean war all matter.
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    (Original post by Wade-)
    Winston Churchill was a racist who's lauded as a hero because he was the prime minister at the time when the army, and mostly America, won the Second World War. The fact that you don't believe people should have the right to vote for who runs their country is quite worrying


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    Yep. Still nobody voted for him.

    I believe specific people should have the right to vote. I don't support universal voting rights to any tom, **** or harry. Voting rights should be based on marriage and property ownership.
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    (Original post by pickup)
    Elizabeth I, I believe, said something about 'not wanting to open windows into men's souls.' That is, as long as people gave lip service to the Church of England and didn't challenge her politically, she was happy. It was though quite another thing when Protestantism wanted to be organised more democratically. 'No bishops, no Queen'. She wasn't going to have people making their own mind up about religion , and putting it into action. Once they started to act according to their conscience there was no saying where it might end. They might suddenly move from having religion according to conscience to having politics according to conscience.

    Her tolerance however was a big advance on her sister and others who wanted to burn us at the stake for being Protestant and the next year you could be hanged for being Catholic. The experience of Puritanism in the 17th century didn't go down took well either. Cromwell famously declared that they were as bad ( equally intolerant) as the ones we had before ( Charles I et al.)

    High Tories and their antecedents, have , of course, got their knickers in a twist in the past. If you believe in the Divine Right of Kings ( and theoretically support the next in line come what may) you have a lot of explaining to do when suddenly the next in line threatens to take away your power or take your land off you ( James II) Hence the hilarious story of James' son being smuggled into the palace in a warming pan - ie not born of the Queen, to salve the consciences of the Royalists and allow them to have Williamandmary.

    Self interest trumps everything, even with Loyalists, apparently.
    Well of course.
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    (Original post by Arran82)
    Why would gay folks even want to be in a church....they are sinners in their eyes
    Not all, or I suspect, many of our eyes.

    I don't think gay people are any more or less sinners than non-gays.
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    The Church of England want to ensure children with mitochondria disease still come into the world when there is a breakthrough medical technique on the way to get rid of and replace the faulty gene. Idiots.
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    (Original post by william walker)
    No one voted for him to be PM in WW2.
    No-one voted for Gordon Brown to be PM during the financial crisis.
    No-one voted for John Major to be PM during the Gulf War.
    No-one voted for Jim Callaghan to be PM during the Winter of Discontent.

    PMs coming in as new leaders of the incumbent party due to the previous incumbent's resignation is nothing unique to Churchill.

    I care, I have a portrait of John Churchill on my wall. Along with The thin red line and The death of general Wolfe. Of course the War of Spanish Succession, 7 Years war and Crimean war all matter.
    I didn't say they don't matter, of course they have historical significance, but that's not the same as people caring about them. WW2 is well-known and that we were the good guys and that the outcomes were on the whole good is relatively uncontroversial. Most people don't know about the Seven Years War, and among those who do the outcome is considered much more ambiguous and debatable.
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    (Original post by william walker)
    Yep. Still nobody voted for him.

    I believe specific people should have the right to vote. I don't support universal voting rights to any tom, **** or harry. Voting rights should be based on marriage and property ownership.
    You're either a troll or very stupid


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    It's good that they have their first female Bishop, but I'm not that fussed about religion.


    (Original post by Arran82)
    Not religious....but i dont like how outside forces force them to change the policies they have had for centuries. While im all for equal rights for gay folks....i dont believe they should be forced to marry them if they dont want to. Why would gay folks even want to be in a church....they are sinners in their eyes
    The church of England is expressly forbidden from marrying gay couples and religious establishments only can perform gay ceremonies if their governing body says they can.
 
 
 
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