Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by carmex)
    I have and, after giving it some thought over the last few days, have decided not to proceed with applying to Cambridge. Things like spelling and grammar errors in university-produced materials is just too much of a bad omen to gamble $32K on. I'm not saying this is not, perhaps, a fine programme, but if it can't present itself competently and professionally to the outside world the relative value of the degree will be depreciated regardless of whether it is the greatest IR programme on planet Earth.
    Can you give me a link to the bit where it is so bad please? I would like to see this...
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by gloriainexcelsis)
    I heard from a few people who had only a 'brief encounter' with ICE. I d advise find the turnover of students, read extremely carefully the documentation of the place and specs before you pay. Find out about the qualifications publications of the staff that is actually going to teach you and make sure you undestand eveything. Find if ICE can change any part of the programme and its terms and conditions. The ICE operates its own rules and so you need to know to what exntend and who will be esponsible for teaching, supevision, assessment etc. and to whatwould the University provide for you and who / how many will be dealing with your study - one place or two?.

    I ve heard certain Diplomas and Certificates have a range age that would be above what I guess is yours. Some will be professionals as well.

    Why would you not try a straight University? With 95th percentile sure you get in many. You say you have not been able to get an entirely clear answer but they should provide answers.
    I can't speak for any of the short ICE programs (of which I would be very wary anyway, at any university, of these kind of short programmes, especially programmes that take anyone who pays the fees with no selectivity).

    This is not a 'diploma or certificate'. It is a master's degree. The degree is issued by the University of Cambridge, not by ICE. It is conferred at the same degree ceremony that confers all the other graduate degrees of the University of Cambridge.

    I can't even speak for any of the other MSts, but this is taught in the department by many of the same people who teach the full time programme.

    As to your other post, let's see..l try turning up in Washington looking for a job with a degree that says 'Cambridge' or one that says 'Birkbeck'... Guess which gets me an interview.

    Also, I'm not sure why you've decided to 'follow' me on TSR, can you enlighten me? I'd be very interested, in light of your sudden appearance here trying to cast aspersions on a programme which, judging by what you have said in your post, you are clueless as to the type, content or lecturers of.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by carmex)
    I have and, after giving it some thought over the last few days, have decided not to proceed with applying to Cambridge. Things like spelling and grammar errors in university-produced materials is just too much of a bad omen to gamble $32K on. I'm not saying this is not, perhaps, a fine programme, but if it can't present itself competently and professionally to the outside world the relative value of the degree will be depreciated regardless of whether it is the greatest IR programme on planet Earth.
    A Masters is a very important decision in your study and your money. A $32k is very serious money. You are quite right to check every detail. A Masters is also the most important step to further study like MPhil or PhD. Also a definite factor is the tutor who must have a PhD -check this as well - try to see the publications of the staff how much they are quoted, and shop around.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by timmymagic)
    Hahaha - if it was not for the fact it is Cambridge, I would probably feel the same.
    Believe me, I considered that. However, if two candidates arrive at Foggy Bottom, one holding a master's degree from Central Missouri State University and the other a master's degree from Johns Hopkins University Advanced Academic Programs, they'll be going for the guy (or gal) from Central Missouri State. The "Advanced Academic Programs" asterisk is an instant clue-in that this is not the "real" Johns Hopkins experience. I don't want to risk that "MSt" is a similar asterisk. It very well may not be, but I play the $1 slots when I go to Vegas - I have yet to go into the high limit room to put down a $30K bet and so there's no reason I'd do it here either. (If it had the same "MPhil" designation it might ameliorate my concern about the issues the staff have communicating in written English, but right now, for me, it's just too much of a gamble. It may not be for others, and that's fine, I have no desire to judge anyone.)
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by gloriainexcelsis)
    A Masters is a very important decision in your study and your money. A $32k is very serious money. You are quite right to check every detail. A Masters is also the most important step to further study like MPhil or PhD. Also a definite factor is the tutor who must have a PhD -check this as well - try to see the publications of the staff how much they are quoted, and shop around.
    The "tutor"? The program is lectured by tenured academic staff. A PhD is a minimum. A number of them are full professors. Similar with dissertation supervisors. "Tutors" are an irrelevant concept. Again, your comments might be relevant to some 3-day short course open to anyone with the cash to burn, but you're clueless about this course. Did you sign up for one of those and get disappointed?
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by carmex)
    Believe me, I considered that. However, if two candidates arrive at Foggy Bottom, one holding a master's degree from Central Missouri State University and the other a master's degree from Johns Hopkins University Advanced Academic Programs, they'll be going for the guy (or gal) from Central Missouri State. The "Advanced Academic Programs" asterisk is an instant clue-in that this is not the "real" Johns Hopkins experience. I don't want to risk that "MSt" is a similar asterisk. It very well may not be, but I play the $1 slots when I go to Vegas - I have yet to go into the high limit room to put down a $30K bet and so there's no reason I'd do it here either. (If it had the same "MPhil" designation it might ameliorate my concern about the issues the staff have communicating in written English, but right now, for me, it's just too much of a gamble. It may not be for others, and that's fine, I have no desire to judge anyone.)
    It's your decision and that's fine - but there are actually MSt alumni working in interesting jobs in DC. Some of them had their MSts paid for by the U.S. government too. I guess that made it less of a gamble for them.

    Also a repeat of the request for a link to the bad grammar page please...?
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by gloriainexcelsis)
    A Masters is a very important decision in your study and your money. A $32k is very serious money. You are quite right to check every detail. A Masters is also the most important step to further study like MPhil or PhD. Also a definite factor is the tutor who must have a PhD -check this as well - try to see the publications of the staff how much they are quoted, and shop around.

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...343&highlight=

    "I'm studying... poetry

    I'm interested in... art

    My study level is... Other
    "

    Eminently qualified to discuss a master's degree in international relations, then. :facepalm:

    Oh, welcome to the wonders of the Internet, where anyone with a keyboard can opine on things they know nothing about...
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sj27)
    It's your decision and that's fine - but there are actually MSt alumni working in interesting jobs in DC. Some of them had their MSts paid for by the U.S. government too.
    Who? Examples?

    (Original post by sj27)
    Also a repeat of the request for a link to the bad grammar page please...?
    I didn't reply to your question because, first, I think, you need to read my previous comments, and, second, I'm not going to provide you my log-in code so you can peruse the self-service system which can't simply be "linked".

    Third, there's not a "bad grammar bit". Across the multi page, multi site application process (the application form, the self-service site, etc.) there is a consistent pattern of misspelled words, sentence fragments, and other oddities. I've provided a couple of examples in my previous posts. You can believe I've accurately quoted the text as it's written, or you can believe I've come here to engineer some grand scheme to impugn the reputation of Cambridge on a lightly trafficked thread on a student message board if you like. I don't really care either way.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by carmex)
    Who? Examples?



    I didn't reply to your question because, first, I think, you need to read my previous comments, and, second, I'm not going to provide you my log-in code so you can peruse the self-service system which can't simply be "linked".

    Third, there's not a "bad grammar bit". Across the multi page, multi site application process (the application form, the self-service site, etc.) there is a consistent pattern of misspelled words, sentence fragments, and other oddities. I've provided a couple of examples in my previous posts. You can believe I've accurately quoted the text as it's written, or you can believe I've come here to engineer some grand scheme to impugn the reputation of Cambridge on a lightly trafficked thread on a student message board if you like. I don't really care either way.
    Jeez, relax... I just wanted a link so I could have something concrete to highlight to the relevant people. I'll copy the stuff from your posts instead, I presume they will know where to find it.

    A LinkedIn search should bring you up names of people working in various positions in DC. It won't tell you who paid for their courses of course, but every year there are a number of them on the course, usually via a military route but this can be quite broad of course into intelligence circles, etc. (Not that it matters to you of course as you aren't applying.)
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sj27)
    Jeez, relax... I just wanted a link so I could have something concrete to highlight to the relevant people. I'll copy the stuff from your posts instead, I presume they will know where to find it.
    Yes. Copyediting is not a service I offer pro bono at this time.

    (Original post by sj27)
    A LinkedIn search should bring you up names of people working in various positions in DC.
    Just searched. I couldn't fine profiles of MSt graduates "working in various positions in DC". Are you certain this isn't something that has become "fact by repetition" via ICE marketers? If not, please go ahead and just post links to a few profiles of course graduates.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by carmex)
    Yes. Copyediting is not a service I offer pro bono at this time.

    Just searched. I couldn't fine profiles of MSt graduates "working in various positions in DC". Are you certain this isn't something that has become "fact by repetition" via ICE marketers? If not, please go ahead and just post links to a few profiles of course graduates.
    Really? You couldn't find anyone? Do you know how to do an advanced search on LinkedIn?

    The below 3 came up as the first 3, in this order, on my search (hope the search links work). I presume you don't expect me to go through the entire list and link you to every one.

    https://www.linkedin.com/profile/vie...%3A&_mSplash=1

    https://www.linkedin.com/profile/vie...%3A&_mSplash=1

    https://www.linkedin.com/profile/vie...%3A&_mSplash=1

    Not to mention that despite your focus on ICE marketing (really, where?) you seem to have overlooked the fact that POLIS itself takes ownership of the MSt and talks about it in literally the same breath as its other graduate programmes:

    http://www.polis.cam.ac.uk/study-at-polis/graduates

    At the postgraduate level the Department offers an MPhil in International Relations and Politics, an MPhil in Public Policy, and a part-time MSt in International Relations. It also has a thriving PhD programme, which admits twenty students a year, and is linked to the ESRC doctoral training centre. More than 200 students from over 30 countries are currently enrolled on graduate programmes.



    I'm not sure why you got so pissed off just because I asked for a link, but whatever, good luck in whatever course you choose to apply to. Hope it gives you what you want at a price you consider to offer you value.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sj27)
    Really? You couldn't find anyone? Do you know how to do an advanced search on LinkedIn?

    The below 3 came up as the first 3, in this order, on my search (hope the search links work). I presume you don't expect me to go through the entire list and link you to every one.

    https://www.linkedin.com/profile/vie...%3A&_mSplash=1

    https://www.linkedin.com/profile/vie...%3A&_mSplash=1

    https://www.linkedin.com/profile/vie...%3A&_mSplash=1

    Not to mention that despite your focus on ICE marketing (really, where?) you seem to have overlooked the fact that POLIS itself takes ownership of the MSt and talks about it in literally the same breath as its other graduate programmes:

    http://www.polis.cam.ac.uk/study-at-polis/graduates

    At the postgraduate level the Department offers an MPhil in International Relations and Politics, an MPhil in Public Policy, and a part-time MSt in International Relations. It also has a thriving PhD programme, which admits twenty students a year, and is linked to the ESRC doctoral training centre. More than 200 students from over 30 countries are currently enrolled on graduate programmes.



    I'm not sure why you got so pissed off just because I asked for a link, but whatever, good luck in whatever course you choose to apply to. Hope it gives you what you want at a price you consider to offer you value.
    The person's education in the third link you provided is not viewable by those outside their network. The person in the second link apparently started the MSt programme immediately after getting their B.A., which sort-of torpedoes the idea of a course for mid-career professionals. The person in the first link appears to have had a couple non-jobs after completing the MSt until he eventually went to the University of Michigan for a second graduate degree at which point life seemed to improve.

    If these are the standard bearers of the MSt programme it erodes confidence a bit more than the spelling errors on the programme's website and application materials.

    But, whatever, this isn't productive, and I've obviously upset you which was not my intent. I'm sure the Cambridge MSt programme fills an appropriate niche for some people in unique circumstances. It just isn't for me.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Research Excellence Framework 2014 shows rankings of HEIs in UK http://results.ref.ac.uk/Results/ByUoa/21
    http://www.ref.ac.uk/
    It assesses the quality of research by unit in each HEI.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by carmex)

    If these are the standard bearers of the MSt programme it erodes confidence a bit more than the spelling errors on the programme's website and application materials.

    But, whatever, this isn't productive, and I've obviously upset you which was not my intent. I'm sure the Cambridge MSt programme fills an appropriate niche for some people in unique circumstances. It just isn't for me.
    You make some interesting points in fairness, where else are you thinking of applying?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by gloriainexcelsis)
    Research Excellence Framework 2014 shows rankings of HEIs in UK http://results.ref.ac.uk/Results/ByUoa/21
    http://www.ref.ac.uk/
    It assesses the quality of research by unit in each HEI.
    Birkbeck is never mentioned in the Foreign Policy rankings, Oxford and Cambridge rarely are either, but have done more recently. LSE is the higher ranked of the UK schools, but is overly expensive and does not offer a proper part-time option.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by timmymagic)
    Birkbeck is never mentioned in the Foreign Policy rankings, Oxford and Cambridge rarely are either, but have done more recently. LSE is the higher ranked of the UK schools, but is overly expensive and does not offer a proper part-time option.
    Many thanks.
    I posted this for a general interest as it is a new thing. Up until 2008 ranking was caried out by the RAE. LSE has some good student accommodation but I agree it is dear... however if you become or are alumnus/a of the University of London you are entitled to certain benefits - need to check.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/03/...nal-relations/

    This is the link for the overall ranking, you will note Oxford, Cambridge and LSE are listed in the Masters and PhD programmes section of International programmes (non US section). I am not sure how relevant this list is to other parts of the world, by that I mean it might be US centric, but I expect the rankings carry weight regardless.

    For my situation the US is not an option, Oxford and LSE would be good, but getting the Masters without having to take a break from full time employment has to be the preference, so Cambridge comes out on top. I also have a Masters from LSE, so Cambridge would be a new experience - the fees for LSE are also £8,000 higher than Cambridge, so I have to factor all that in.
    • Community Assistant
    • CV Helper
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    CV Helper
    (Original post by carmex)
    ......
    Good decision, one less competitor for the people who do their research properly and don't judge on superficial issues.

    If it helps anyone else, I did the MSt a few years ago, with no prior academic background, and sailed through a subsequent PhD at Cambridge, very comfortably. It's an outstanding course from one of the very best universities in the world.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by carmex)
    I have and, after giving it some thought over the last few days, have decided not to proceed with applying to Cambridge. Things like spelling and grammar errors in university-produced materials is just too much of a bad omen to gamble $32K on. I'm not saying this is not, perhaps, a fine programme, but if it can't present itself competently and professionally to the outside world the relative value of the degree will be depreciated regardless of whether it is the greatest IR programme on planet Earth.

    Wow. Seriously? So in ten, twenty, thirty years time, you think a Masters from Cambridge would be devalued because there were some typos on the website in 2015?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    Good decision, one less competitor for the people who do their research properly and don't judge on superficial issues.
    "It's just a few typos!"

    The point isn't that Cambridge doesn't have someone who can communicate professionally in the English language. The point is - in its external facing materials - this is the way that Cambridge thinks it's okay to present itself. It speaks to a certain mindset. Having rampant spelling errors in application materials is embarrassing and exceptionally unusual but, you're right, doesn't mean much else in and of itself. However, if the university doesn't think this is a big deal, what other shortcuts does it take?

    Johns Hopkins and Harvard both have no trouble communicating in flawless English. I've been accepted to one and plan to apply to the other. They're just not "gamble" programmes like this Cambridge "MSt" is turning out.

    (Original post by threeportdrift)
    If it helps anyone else, I did the MSt a few years ago, with no prior academic background, and sailed through a subsequent PhD at Cambridge
    I think your previous statement makes a bit more sense now.

    I'm looking for a challenging programme that will be viewed favorably by potential employers and has demanding admissions standards. I'm not looking for a "cake" programme that one can "sail" through, anyone can be admitted with no prior background, and theses are pounded out and rubber-stamped with spelling (and worse) errors.

    Again, I'm not criticizing the Cambridge MSt. I think, like the Johns Hopkins "AAP" it serves an important role for a certain constituency. I'm just not part of that constituency.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the PM's proposal to cut tuition fees for some courses?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.