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4 days until academic freedom is gone in the UK watch

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    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    Preach!
    In this case, it is more "Don't Preach!!!"
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    Unis have already been censoring themselves for years by the means of "safe space" policies, which basically means that you can say whatever you like as long as you're a radical leftist, and if you're not then you're going to be censored.
    Which is why the police were monitoring a green energy debate to watch for extremists.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Oh really? Well ok that would be pretty ****ty. It's been ****ed up for ages though, and no-one was bothered first time round so I'm not surprised they don't care now...
    I'm not entirely sure but from what I've been reading it seems so. There isn't a distinction between events with British citizens speaking or foreigners speaking. And as I've mentioned, everything is vaguely defined so not sure what an 'event' actually means.
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    dont like the sound of this
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    Social policy of this government has been dreadful. Not that the last government was much better but it seems that liberal ideas and individualism are all but gone as a force for good in the United Kingdom.
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    Left wingers have been supporting the censorship of free speech on university campuses for decades (see recent spiked report for numerous examples) and it is official NUS policy to censor political speech they disagree with. Why am I meant to care about their crocodile tears just because its now the "other team" doing it?

    In an ideel world there would be no campus speech restrictions whatsoever, but the hypocrisy of the guardian/etc wringing their hands over this when they have actively supported censorship of ideas they dislike for decades, is just unbearable.

    I hope this bill passes purely because its going to annoy some people who deserve to be annoyed, and then perhaps we can have a grown up debate about free speech that doesnt essentially come down to tribal politics.
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    (Original post by poohat)
    Leftists have been supporting the censorship of free speech on university campuses for decades (see recent spiked report for numerous examples) and it is official NUS policy to censor political speech they disagree with. Why am I meant to care about their crocodile tears just because its now the "other team" doing it?

    In an ideel world there would be no campus speech restrictions whatsoever, but the hypocrisy of the NUS/guardian/etc wringing their hands over this when they have actively supported censorship of ideas they dislike for decades, is just unbearable.
    To be fair, Peter Hitchens isn't exactly a campus leftist but there's a video of him in here expressing his disagreement with the bill.

    I agree that free speech has not been violated over and over at universites for ages. It's a significant problem.
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    To be fair, Peter Hitchens isn't exactly a campus leftist but there's a video of him in here expressing his disagreement with the bill.
    In theory, free speech shouldnt be a right wing vs left wing issue. The consistent position is the one taken by genuine civil libertarians - namely that there should be absolutely no censorship of ideas on university campuses whatsoever. Broadly, Hitchens lies within that tradition (even if he can be wacky at times)

    However in practice, the left wing has consistently promoted the censorship of political ideas they do not like, with the result that modern Western universities now have some of the most repressive censorship regimes in history. The left wing objection to this bill has nothing whatsoever to do with 'free speech', and a lot to do with the fact that this time it is one of their causes being censored, rather than one from "the other team".
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    (Original post by poohat)
    In theory, free speech shouldnt be a right wing vs left wing issue. The consistent position is the one taken by genuine civil libertarians - namely that there should be absolutely no censorship of ideas on university campuses whatsoever. Broadly, Hitchens lies within that tradition (even if he can be wacky at times)

    However in practice, the left wing has consistently promoted the censorship of political ideas they do not like, with the result that modern Western universities now have some of the most repressive censorship regimes in history. The left wing objection to this bill has nothing whatsoever to do with 'free speech', and a lot to do with the fact that this time it is one of their causes being censored, rather than one from "the other team".
    I agree completely. I just think this "hope this bill passes purely because its going to annoy some people who deserve to be annoyed, and then perhaps we can have a grown up debate about free speech that doesnt essentially come down to tribal politics." doesn't make any sense. Once a government restricts liberty, it is rare that it gives it back later.

    Why not just oppose it all?
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    I agree completely. I just think this "hope this bill passes purely because its going to annoy some people who deserve to be annoyed, and then perhaps we can have a grown up debate about free speech that doesnt essentially come down to tribal politics." doesn't make any sense. Once a government restricts liberty, it is rare that it gives it back later.

    Why not just oppose it all?
    Because at the moment those on the left-wing (who are by far the most influential side when it comes to university matters) have no incentive whatsoever to care about free-speech, since they are the ones in power who are able to censor ideas they dislike. Forcing them into a situation where they have to take pro-free speech positions is the only realistic way that things can change.

    Go back 40 years to the Cold War/McCarthy era when communist ideas were being censored, and the left wing used to broadly advocate for free speech (because they were the ones being censored). This attitude disappeared as soon as they became the ones in power, who were able to shut down debate they did not like. Generally speaking, people will only adopt pro-free speech positions when they feel that they are the ones at risk of being censored.

    Basically all censorship is bad, but if we absolutely must have it, then its probably better for both sides of the political spectrum to be at risk of censorship since then everyone has an incentive to supprt free-speech as an abstract principle. The current sitaution where only one side has power is disasterous from a free-speech perspective (just as it was 50 years ago when the sides were reversed).
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    (Original post by poohat)
    Because at the moment those on the left-wing (who are by far the most influential side when it comes to university matters) have no incentive whatsoever to care about free-speech, since they are the ones in power who are able to censor ideas they dislike. Forcing them into a situation where they have to take pro-frree speech positions is the only realistic way that things can change.

    Go back 40 years to the Cold War/McCarthy era when communist ideas were being censored, and the left wing used to broadly advocate for free speech (because they were the ones being censored). This attitude disappeared as soon as they became the ones in power, who were able to shut down debate they did not like. Generally speaking, people will only adopt pro-free speech positions when they feel that they are the ones at risk of being censored.
    I don't honestly think they would take that position through force but just hold the hypocritical position that this bill is wrong but what they were doing earlier wasn't. Plus this would mean more anti-free speech policy would become law which isn't an insignificant step in my opinion.

    I know the hypocrisy of the campus activist types sucks but I'd prefer, as a liberal, to oppose attacks on free-speech whenever and where ever they come from.
 
 
 
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