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    (Original post by HigherMinion)
    We have no such freedom then. Those countries will grow organically on their own; we're not here to support other continents of people.
    We have have greater freedom of speech than many other countries. Perhaps we are not here to support other continents of people, if this is the case then feminism is hardly a priority issue in the U.K.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Do we also have a murder culture? What about a theft culture?
    I know, that's why I said I know it will never change. But rape culture is influenced by "what a woman is wearing". So we can't feel safe wearing a low cut top if we're walking home at night and that's just disgusting. The fact that people would blame what you're wearing is just truly weird. You wouldn't blame the victim of murder, but there is so much victim blame in rape.
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    (Original post by HigherMinion)
    She means that because Africa needs feminism, the West should also need it... Even though we don't need it, Africa needs it, even though it didn't benefit the West... We need it more because Africa needs it. I don't see advocates for feminism in those countries, but plenty in the West lobbying for feminist policies within our own borders, none of which support Africa or other non-feminist countries.

    ... I think that's what she means.
    I mean that I care about women worldwide. We all need gender equality, just like we need racial equality. I didn't say the UK needs feminism more at all.
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    (Original post by kiki37)
    I know, that's why I said I know it will never change. But rape culture is influenced by "what a woman is wearing". So we can't feel safe wearing a low cut top if we're walking home at night and that's just disgusting. The fact that people would blame what you're wearing is just truly weird. You wouldn't blame the victim of murder, but there is so much victim blame in rape.
    We don't have a rape culture. A rape culture suggests that it is socially acceptable to rape someone which could not be further from the truth.

    Why is it when a man gets accused of rape he has his name tarnished for life? If it were acceptable this would not be the case.

    In fact rape is deemed more serious than murder by the majority of society.

    We don't have a rape culture. We just have a few bad eggs.
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    (Original post by KingStannis)
    I'm not a feminist; I'm a gender equalist.

    (Original post by kkboyk)
    No, but I am an egalitarian.
    Feminism is equality of both genders.
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    (Original post by skd1996)
    Feminism is equality of both genders.
    modern/radical feminism isn't about equality. it's about patriarchy. patriarchy as an ideology is fundamentally against equal regard for both genders, and, if any, installs a narrative of males being the cause of women's problems. how's that for "equality", huh?
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    (Original post by skd1996)
    It is estimated that between 60,000-95,000 people are raped per year in the UK alone. I would say that's more than a few bad eggs.
    estimated by whom? and based on evidence or anecdotes/false reports? there are probably more women who lie about being raped than women who are actually raped - I'm not saying rape isn't horrific, but so many woman are sabotaging themselves by lying about it - I've honestly seen people on the internet saying that having sex with a drunk woman is rape - that's how stupid this whole thing is becoming.
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    (Original post by skd1996)
    It is estimated that between 60,000-95,000 people are raped per year in the UK alone. I would say that's more than a few bad eggs.
    Shall we work with facts rather than estimates?

    There were exactly 22,116 reported cases of rape last year.

    That equates to 0.0003% of the population assuming that every case has a different perpetrator.

    I say it again. Just a few bad eggs.
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    (Original post by zippity.doodah)
    "feminism" is a "dirty word" to many people, because it should be - the name itself in a modern western context puts emphasis on women and not "gender". we don't call racial egalitarians "blackists", do we? why do we call gender-egalitarians "feminists", then? it's literally that stupid - something's got to change, because the term itself is sexist.

    Spoiler:
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    the term also conjures images of women who look like this: (honestly, let me know of a feminist author who is neitther wearing glasses, has short hair, or is generally aggressive)
    and those kinds of women are usually never normal people who believe in pure-and-simple gender equality, but rather something completely over the top and idiotic, let alone patronising towards the intelligence/agency of women


    in 2015, when men and women are, by law, equals, what left could "feminism" do other than make women superior? oh yeah, that's exactly the plan for most of them today - if their fundamental narrative behind their movement (other than equality) is the belief in patriarchy, which is the doctrine that men are controlling them, how can they exact to be taken seriously with an ideology which promotes the value that men are oppressing them? that's such a sexist concept and I'm amazed that it's allowed to exist so openly without scrutiny.

    feminists - you guys (women) aren't unequal, so stop pretending to be, because you're making girls think you guys are necessary - it's like snake oil. it's a lie based upon a scam.
    • The name is feminism as it started off as being all about women because it was necessary at the time. And the name stuck. Is it seriously such a big deal that it has "fem" in it? Would you seriously not believe in feminism for such a petty reason? That's just so pathetic I can't even comprehend how you can think like that. They're not called "blackists" because people of all shades have been mistreated. There's not two races.
    • Another ridiculous point. Here's a feminist with long hair, no glasses and not aggressive: (me). Not that I'm an author or anything, just an average feminist. What's even wrong with women who look like that? Oh. My. God.
    • I simply believe in gender equality. I have no desire to be superior to men. I should hope most feminists feel this way. I completely get along with men. Men are great.
    • I don't want to be a victim.I simply believe in gender equality. That is what feminism means to me.
    • I accept that us females in the UK don't have it too hard. But there ARE sexist people out there. I simply just oppose sexism. I consider myself equal, and I want to be seen as equal. That's it. And I just believe that women worldwide should be able to feel like that too. Maybe females don't need feminism that much in the UK, but trans people do. Remember it isn't just about females. There's feminist issues concerning men too. A high number of men's suicides considered to be because they don't want to seek help because they'll be seen as weak.

    Ok. Rant over. Hahaha. Sorry about this. I'm a passionate person.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    We don't have a rape culture. A rape culture suggests that it is socially acceptable to rape someone which could not be further from the truth.

    Why is it when a man gets accused of rape he has his name tarnished for life? If it were acceptable this would not be the case.

    In fact rape is deemed more serious than murder by the majority of society.

    We don't have a rape culture. We just have a few bad eggs.
    Why is it that more women are raped in the summer, when they're wearing shorts? Because these bad eggs think women are asking for it because they're showing their flipping legs! Maybe they just have messed up minds, or maybe it's a societal issue. I don't know. But it needs to change.
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    (Original post by kiki37)
    Why is it that more women are raped in the summer, when they're wearing shorts? Because these bad eggs think women are asking for it because they're showing their flipping legs! Maybe they just have messed up minds, or maybe it's a societal issue. I don't know. But it needs to change.
    No these bad eggs are simply just bad people. How do you know what they were thinking?

    How do you suppose it can be changed?
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    (Original post by kiki37)
    I only made an account on here a few days ago and I'm a bit shocked at how some guys just seem so sexist. It seems so subtle and common on here, sometimes not so subtle with one forum I read being called something like "what is wrong with girls". It's actually kind of upset me a bit, I had more faith in our generation.
    I don't like the term "feminism" because it has women-centric connotations. I prefer the term "gender equality".
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    No these bad eggs are simply just bad people. How do you know what they were thinking?

    How do you suppose it can be changed?
    A lot of people do believe that girls are "asking for it" if they're wearing anything slightly revealing. I don't think that all guys think like that at all. I really don't think that. But these "bad eggs" clearly do. I feel that boys should be brought up being taught respect for women. And that just because a woman might be wearing something revealing doesn't make her a "slut". Hopefully most mothers tell their sons this anyway. But it should just be talked about, as I am doing now. As teachers could talk to pupils.
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    (Original post by kiki37)
    • The name is feminism as it started off as being all about women because it was necessary at the time. And the name stuck. Is it seriously such a big deal that it has "fem" in it? Would you seriously not believe in feminism for such a petty reason? That's just so pathetic I can't even comprehend how you can think like that. They're not called "blackists" because people of all shades have been mistreated. There's not two races.
    "and the name stuck"
    so what? it's very out of date now, right? why not think long-term and not short-term? surely long-termism is more rational for the human race than short-termism? if we're going to focus on BOTH genders equally (becaus they both have problems) then why are we terming this movement feminism? if you can call it feminism, would that mean I could call it masculinism? do you think I'd be taken seriously? the reason I won't be taken seriously is the same reason I don't take people who use the term "feminism" to reer to gender equality seriously.



    • Another ridiculous point. Here's a feminist with long hair, no glasses and not aggressive: (me). Not that I'm an author or anything, just an average feminist. What's even wrong with women who look like that? Oh. My. God.


    ...if your reason for not wearing makeup (don't worry, it's just an observation) is ideological/political then I have appeared to have forgotten another qualification to my previous list. because, again, there are a plethora of girls/women who don't wear make up for "feministic" reasons



    • I simply believe in gender equality. I have no desire to be superior to men. I should hope most feminists feel this way. I completely get along with men. Men are great.


    you're a "liberal feminist" then, aka "normal" - the term "feminist", in *that* sense, is obsolete today. so why use it? we're all equal, aren't we? it's like saying "I'm not racist" in a social context where being racist is both almost non-existent and universally frowned upon. it, as a term today, just implies that you don't believe men and women are equal yet in which case if you're talking about women being legally better-treated than men, then I'd agree. otherwise, not.



    • I don't want to be a victim.I simply believe in gender equality. That is what feminism means to me.

    okay then, what are you fighting for? presumably nothing at all if we're equal, right?



    • I accept that us females in the UK don't have it too hard. But there ARE sexist people out there. I simply just oppose sexism. I consider myself equal, and I want to be seen as equal. That's it. And I just believe that women worldwide should be able to feel like that too. Maybe females don't need feminism that much in the UK, but trans people do. Remember it isn't just about females. There's feminist issues concerning men too. A high number of men's suicides considered to be because they don't want to seek help because they'll be seen as weak.


    Ok. Rant over. Hahaha. Sorry about this. I'm a passionate person.
    firstly, sure, there are sexists everywhere, male and female. that's not ever going to change because there will always be stupid people in society. and what is a movement for "gender equality" going to say about trans-people? I don't think it has anything to do with them. and the fact that you're apologising seems only be trying to portray me as the bad guy - I'm only questioing the fact that feminism today is either obsolete or negative (in the radical form) - do you think gender egalitarians/individualists have it wrong or are less legitimate as a group when compared to feminists?
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    (Original post by skd1996)
    What about the thousands of people who were afraid to speak out? Just because those cases were reported doesn't make your Awnser right.
    Ok then, assuming there are 60,000 cases a year that it still only 0.0009% of the population. Still a tiny amount.

    (Original post by kiki37)
    A lot of people do believe that girls are "asking for it" if they're wearing anything slightly revealing. I don't think that all guys think like that at all. I really don't think that. But these "bad eggs" clearly do. I feel that boys should be brought up being taught respect for women. And that just because a woman might be wearing something revealing doesn't make her a "slut". Hopefully most mothers tell their sons this anyway. But it should just be talked about, as I am doing now. As teachers could talk to pupils.
    I don't know anyone who wasn't taught to respect women. Do you still believe we have a rape culture?
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    There still isn't full equality in the UK and in the West.


    Women are still denied abortions in Ireland. This has left many to die in agony from complications, or forced to travel to the UK for a procedure that should be a basic right - and before anyone says 'Oh blah blah sluts using it as contraception', I'm also talking women who need an abortion for a medical reason.

    It's fine for a newspaper to splash pictures of boobs all over the third page, but wouldn't have been fine for me to breastfeed my daughter in a cafe. :lolwut:

    Ched Evans. Regardless of whether you think he is guilty or innocent, a man is convicted of rape, and after less than three years in prison, is deemed to have 'served his time', and freed to encourage his family, friends and fans to hound his victim into hiding. He isn't arrested for harrassment - he's continuously excused for it.

    On a more trivial, but still meaningful, matter - it's starting from such a young age, with some of the world's biggest corporations. It's difficult to find any Big Hero Six merch featuring the female main characters, either on their own or alongside the men. Same for Power Rangers, Fireman Sam etc. Kids don't see male or female, they want something with all the characters on - but we're presumed to believe that women don't belong as superheroes and firefighters. It's a man's job. Similarly, little boys can't get anything with Peppa Pig on, or Frozen - it's unfair on both sides, and there's absolutely no good reason for it.


    Until these issues and more are fixed, we can't really call ourselves egalitarians. An egalitarian aim would be to maintain the balance of equality - feminists need to create that equality, before we can maintain it. If you see areas in which men are discriminated against, there is nothing stopping you from starting your own movement to try and correct it, but why should feminists fight your battles too?
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    (Original post by zippity.doodah)
    "and the name stuck"
    so what? it's very out of date now, right? why not think long-term and not short-term? surely long-termism is more rational for the human race than short-termism? if we're going to focus on BOTH genders equally (becaus they both have problems) then why are we terming this movement feminism? if you can call it feminism, would that mean I could call it masculinism? do you think I'd be taken seriously? the reason I won't be taken seriously is the same reason I don't take people who use the term "feminism" to reer to gender equality seriously.

    It's really okay to not call yourself a feminist because you don't agree with the name. But if you agree with gender equality, then why bash feminism? Perhaps the name should be changed. But there's bigger issues to deal with, and it just feels like some men pretend to be against the name when really they're against the cause.


    ...if your reason for not wearing makeup (don't worry, it's just an observation) is ideological/political then I have appeared to have forgotten another qualification to my previous list. because, again, there are a plethora of girls/women who don't wear make up for "feministic" reasons

    I do wear makeup! I just wasn't that day. Only really wear it if I can be bothered. I was just going on a bike ride by myself that day, so I thought may as well have a fresh face :-)

    you're a "liberal feminist" then, aka "normal" - the term "feminist", in *that* sense, is obsolete today. so why use it? we're all equal, aren't we? it's like saying "I'm not racist" in a social context where being racist is both almost non-existent and universally frowned upon. it, as a term today, just implies that you don't believe men and women are equal yet in which case if you're talking about women being legally better-treated than men, then I'd agree. otherwise, not.

    I don't believe that men and women are equal worldwide. I'm not sure about here. I definitely feel equal, but I don't really know how it is for other females in the UK.

    okay then, what are you fighting for? presumably nothing at all if we're equal, right?

    I'm not really fighting for anything. Just simply stating that I believe men and women should be equal worldwide.

    firstly, sure, there are sexists everywhere, male and female. that's not ever going to change because there will always be stupid people in society. and what is a movement for "gender equality" going to say about trans-people? I don't think it has anything to do with them. and the fact that you're apologising seems only be trying to portray me as the bad guy - I'm only questioing the fact that feminism today is either obsolete or negative (in the radical form) - do you think gender egalitarians/individualists have it wrong or are less legitimate as a group when compared to feminists?
    Yeah I agree that some females are sexist, and that's wrong too. Gender equality totally involves trans people! They're still not fully accepted everywhere, think of that girl Leelah Alcorn who killed herself. Because people think it's wrong. It needs to be known that being trans isn't wrong. I'm not trying to portray you as a bad guy, I just feel like an idiot ranting so much! Radical feminism is negative, I agree with you. But feminism is necessary. Gender egalitarians are the same as feminists, in my opinion. I'm happy to be called either.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Ok then, assuming there are 60,000 cases a year that it still only 0.0009% of the population. Still a tiny amount.



    I don't know anyone who wasn't taught to respect women. Do you still believe we have a rape culture?
    You can't assume that everyone has been taught to respect women, because some people still don't. And some people don't have good parents that will teach them right and wrong.
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    (Original post by maddersla)
    There still isn't full equality in the UK and in the West.


    Women are still denied abortions in Ireland. This has left many to die in agony from complications, or forced to travel to the UK for a procedure that should be a basic right - and before anyone says 'Oh blah blah sluts using it as contraception', I'm also talking women who need an abortion for a medical reason.

    It's fine for a newspaper to splash pictures of boobs all over the third page, but wouldn't have been fine for me to breastfeed my daughter in a cafe. :lolwut:

    Ched Evans. Regardless of whether you think he is guilty or innocent, a man is convicted of rape, and after less than three years in prison, is deemed to have 'served his time', and freed to encourage his family, friends and fans to hound his victim into hiding. He isn't arrested for harrassment - he's continuously excused for it.

    On a more trivial, but still meaningful, matter - it's starting from such a young age, with some of the world's biggest corporations. It's difficult to find any Big Hero Six merch featuring the female main characters, either on their own or alongside the men. Same for Power Rangers, Fireman Sam etc. Kids don't see male or female, they want something with all the characters on - but we're presumed to believe that women don't belong as superheroes and firefighters. It's a man's job. Similarly, little boys can't get anything with Peppa Pig on, or Frozen - it's unfair on both sides, and there's absolutely no good reason for it.


    Until these issues and more are fixed, we can't really call ourselves egalitarians. An egalitarian aim would be to maintain the balance of equality - feminists need to create that equality, before we can maintain it. If you see areas in which men are discriminated against, there is nothing stopping you from starting your own movement to try and correct it, but why should feminists fight your battles too?
    I agree with everything that you said apart from the part about not fighting men's battles too. Men should be able to identify as feminists too and fight with us.
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    (Original post by kiki37)
    You can't assume that everyone has been taught to respect women, because some people still don't. And some people don't have good parents that will teach them right and wrong.
    I haven't assumed anything. Don't we teach sex ed and consent in schools?
 
 
 
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