Rights of the father. Watch

username457532
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#41
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#41
(Original post by ha27)
I,as a teenage girl who really wants kids when grown up, feel that fathers do not get rights and that is wrong.

I think it is wrong how a woman doesnt need to listen to a word the father has to say she can do what she wants and the father literally has no say in whether she gets an abortion i think it is sad

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Right, so you be perfectly happy to either be forced to carry a child to term that you didn't want or be forced to have an abortion when you wanted to keep the child?
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limetang
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#42
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(Original post by Zargabaath)
Which is why I would say use contraception anyway if you don't know the other person very well, or if you have any doubts. Better to be safe then sorry. People should think about the potential consequences about the actions they're taking.

EDIT: btw it's pretty easy to tell when someone's not wearing a condom lol, but I get what you mean
True but what I'm getting at is the idea that because women get pregnant they're responsible for contraception, which includes things like asking men to wear a condom, if he lies about that element of it then that's where issues start to come into play. But yes I agree that for practical reasons you yourself should be using some form of contraception, if anything because condoms aren't really all that effective.

But I think we're nitpicking here as I feel we're both largely in agreement on this.
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ha27
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#43
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(Original post by SmallTownGirl)
Right, so you be perfectly happy to either be forced to carry a child to term that you didn't want or be forced to have an abortion when you wanted to keep the child?
i guess me having the belief abortion is majorly wrong has a big impact on me but i feel some women just dont even think about the father

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jazjaz
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#44
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(Original post by Octopus_Garden)
I'm not convinced the first happens, as most condoms on sale in the UK are impregnated with spermicide, aren't they?

Can't imagine the semen being very motile after a couple of hours on a bedroom floor inside a spermicide impregnated condom, but I'm open to hearing any studies to the contrary. It's not something I've studied.

People lie. They lie about being on the pill, about being STI free, etc.

Women also tell the truth about being on the pill, but the pill can fail.
Night 1: two people have sex. Woman takes pill as usual
Night 2-5: woman develops nasty norovirus that strikes her down with diarrhoea and vomiting. Both of which affect the pill's effectiveness. Guess how long sperm are reputed to be able to survive for within the reproductive system? Five days.
Woman gets pregnant.
I wasn't talking about the pill failing (nor condoms breaking) that's a separate issue. Preventative measures were taken that failed.

I was talking about the deception and manipulation of woman who lie about taking the pill it in the first place. Also considering misattributed paternity is estimated to be over 1 in 25 (study by LJMU centre for public health) yes a considerable number of women lie when it comes to bringing child into this world. I never said lying about STIs was acceptable that is abhorrent too.

Yes I would have thought too that the chances of becoming pregnant from a used condom are significantly lower but nonetheless there have been cases of women turkey basting or freezing the fresh remnants of condoms. However I imagine this is probably much less common than lying about taking the pill and lying about paternity.
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username457532
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#45
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(Original post by ha27)
i guess me having the belief abortion is majorly wrong has a big impact on me but i feel some women just dont even think about the father

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So you have no respect for body autonomy? This is my body. If I have a child it will be because I want one not because the government or the biological father say I must. The only person who has any rights over my body is me. You can personally choose not to have an abortion but don't you ever dare suggest taking away my right to one.
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jazjaz
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#46
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#46
(Original post by bittr n swt)
yeah that's disgusting and it does happen and in these cases, the man can wash his hands off the kid and woman
Not always it hard to prove a woman lied about being on the pill she can just go and get a free prescription but not take it or miss a few days. In court it would end up being his word against hers and let's face it they will probably lap up a woman's in a family court case. With the sperm jacking there was a case in America when the man had to pay child support after having his sperm stolen by his ex... His name was Joe Pressil.
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ha27
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#47
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#47
(Original post by SmallTownGirl)
So you have no respect for body autonomy? This is my body. If I have a child it will be because I want one not because the government or the biological father say I must. The only person who has any rights over my body is me. You can personally choose not to have an abortion but don't you ever dare suggest taking away my right to one.
jheez calm down i said 'I' believe it is wrong you can do whatever you want...

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username457532
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#48
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#48
(Original post by ha27)
jheez calm down i said 'I' believe it is wrong you can do whatever you want...

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So why did you say women should think about the father? It's not his body. It's not his right to choose.
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Katieem92
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#49
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(Original post by limetang)
But my argument is pretty much be summarised as "my body, my choice, my responsibility". Because pregnancy is exclusively something that happens to a womans body and because sex is something (bar in the case of rape) that women do willingly the buck stops with them when it comes to decisions they make when it comes to avoiding pregnancy. Women have the ultimate set of rights and responsibilities when it comes to pregnancy, which include things like when asking a man to wear a condom, that man must wear a condom when having sex otherwise he is committing a sexual crime. The responsibility of both partners in sex is to comply with the conditions each partner places upon sex taking place, the responsibility of a womans fertility is the responsibility of the woman. Pregnancy therefore in the case where the intention of sex has not been to conceive a child is therefore the womans responsibility.

This is why the argument of "he made his choice when he has sex" falls flat, because his choice was not procreation, his choice was recreational sex.

This is about the most sensible thing I've ever read on TSA. Many gold stars for you!
As a woman, I recognise that it is my responsibility to protect my body. Including from unwanted pregnancy. Advertised failure rates of contraception are absolute worst case scenario, and realistically much lower if used correctly.
And correct use is not rocket science.
If a woman does not wish to become pregnant, in this day and age and in a developed country, she does not have to.
Unless someone explicitly states "Let's have sex to make a baby" it is assumed that sex is for fun and not procreation, therefore the woman failing to ensure that she does not become pregnant is no fault of the man, and whilst I do not feel men should have any legal rights to whether a pregnancy is continued or not, if he did not want to be a father then he should not be forced to become one. However I do think that if he chooses to walk away at that stage then he should not expect to be allowed to return.
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ha27
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#50
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(Original post by SmallTownGirl)
So why did you say women should think about the father? It's not his body. It's not his right to choose.
so he is a father whenever she wants him to be?

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username457532
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#51
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#51
(Original post by ha27)
so he is a father whenever she wants him to be?

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Well if the other option is forcing someone to undergo a medical procedure they don't want then yes.
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DIN-NARYU-FARORE
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#52
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sorry but the father isnt the one to rear the baby for 9 months and does not go through the pain and hormonal changes. Besides if it isnt consensual, why on earth should baby be born

VOTE GREEN ON MAY 7TH
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limetang
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#53
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(Original post by Katieem92)
This is about the most sensible thing I've ever read on TSA. Many gold stars for you!
As a woman, I recognise that it is my responsibility to protect my body. Including from unwanted pregnancy. Advertised failure rates of contraception are absolute worst case scenario, and realistically much lower if used correctly.
And correct use is not rocket science.
If a woman does not wish to become pregnant, in this day and age and in a developed country, she does not have to.
Unless someone explicitly states "Let's have sex to make a baby" it is assumed that sex is for fun and not procreation, therefore the woman failing to ensure that she does not become pregnant is no fault of the man, and whilst I do not feel men should have any legal rights to whether a pregnancy is continued or not, if he did not want to be a father then he should not be forced to become one. However I do think that if he chooses to walk away at that stage then he should not expect to be allowed to return.
Haha, thank you, if anything it's nice to see that I got my point across =P .
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Zargabaath
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#54
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#54
(Original post by limetang)
True but what I'm getting at is the idea that because women get pregnant they're responsible for contraception, which includes things like asking men to wear a condom, if he lies about that element of it then that's where issues start to come into play. But yes I agree that for practical reasons you yourself should be using some form of contraception, if anything because condoms aren't really all that effective.

But I think we're nitpicking here as I feel we're both largely in agreement on this.
I agree we agree
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Juichiro
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#55
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(Original post by garfeeled)
So it seems the thread about the women who was tricked into aborting her pregnancy as devolved into a debate about what rights the father should or shouldn't have when it comes to children.

And by rights I mean should the father have involvement ( legally ) on whether the baby is kept or not
Should the father have a right to walk away without consequence to his actions.
Should the mother have a right to obligate the father to pay child support.
Forgot to mention this first time round but people have brought it up, should the father be obligated to have emotional/practical involvement in the child's life separate of financial support,
Basically potential legal obligations of the father.

I myself am undecided on the issue . My present thinking is over idealistic and could never be used for a real legal system.
Hilarious sig! Where did you get it from?
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garfeeled
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#56
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(Original post by Juichiro)
Hilarious sig! Where did you get it from?
Which one p, the joker one is from giphy whilst the dancing batman and robin is just one I found randomly on the Internet.
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garfeeled
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#57
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#57
(Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
sorry but the father isnt the one to rear the baby for 9 months and does not go through the pain and hormonal changes. Besides if it isnt consensual, why on earth should baby be born

VOTE GREEN ON MAY 7TH
I assume your trolling given that your answer literally goes every single way.
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DiddyDec
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#58
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#58
It is simple, wear condom.
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TheInformer
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#59
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#59
(Original post by garfeeled)
...

And by rights I mean should the father have involvement ( legally ) on whether the baby is kept or not
Should the father have a right to walk away without consequence to his actions.
Should the mother have a right to obligate the father to pay child support.
Forgot to mention this first time round but people have brought it up, should the father be obligated to have emotional/practical involvement in the child's life separate of financial support,
Basically potential legal obligations of the father.

...
The Father should have a right to "walk away" emotionally but I feel child support is necessary unless the Mother earns a decent wage and can comfortably afford to raise the child "properly".

The issue many men have with child support is that often, the money the Father gives is not used on things for the child. I don't think many Fathers would have a problem giving money solely to their child, it's when their ex-partner is using the money to buy handbags, shoes and fund nights out (end cliche).

In addition, if the Mother receives a large amount of child support, she may quit working as she doesn't need to, costing the tax payer money.

In summary, I support compulsory child support, as long as the money is used solely on the child and the amount is "realistic" for the Father being able to afford.
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TheInformer
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#60
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#60
(Original post by SmallTownGirl)
So why did you say women should think about the father? It's not his body. It's not his right to choose.
There's no need to get so angry when someone has a different opinion to yourself.

She wasn't attacking you.
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