Could Women Cope With The Amount Of Sexual Rejection Men Cope With ? Watch

Mike9910
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#41
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(Original post by Rakas21)

Equally, women should stop requiring validation from random men visa vi their appearance. Of course they should still look attractive, but they should feel attractive regardless of male opinion.
I don't understand what you mean here. An attractive female by definition is one that can attract lots of male attention, hence why she's described as being attractive.

If a woman is not getting (much) male attention then she is not attractive.

I've never met a woman who looks attractive but doesn't receive positive validation from men, in a passive sense too.

The best way a woman can gauge how attractive she is is by measuring how much male attention she gets.

A woman should not feel attractive - because she isn't - if she's not receiving male attention.

(Original post by Eveiebaby)
Interesting article. But it also explains why I prefer to avoid the men that exhibit that type of goal seeking behaviour and instead initiate with men who are less bold. Maybe they have less testosterone, maybe they don't.

I know one thing, though and that is that I dislike testosterone driven behaviour in general. Traditional "lads" are such a turn off to me. Straight up, I PREFER men who are less sex driven; they make much more rounded and loyal long term partners in my opinion. The last thing I want if I'm for whatever reason, temporarily incapacitated and not able to be sexual is to worry about them being so desperate and selfish that they feel the need to sleep with someone behind my back. Hell to the no.
This is a strange sentiment to hold, given men are made distinctive by their testosterone, just like women are made distinctive by their estrogen.

I don't think you will find many men who don't like estrogen driven behavior (and most importantly physical traits), given that's what we are programmed to find attractive.

Then again, you do seem very insecure about your relationships with men (re: your concerns about men cheating on you). I've read less attractive women tend to go for less masculine men in order to reduce their chances of being cheated on.Attractive women, on the whole, tend to go for masculine men.

Women also tend to prefer masculine men when they're at their most fertile.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4261489.stm

"Most women like a feminised face, but those who rated themselves attractive went for the classic masculine face.Feminine faces tend to be linked with stability and caring, scientists said."

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Mike9910
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(Original post by cole-slaw)
What rejection? Speak for yourself.

You need to rephrase your question: could attractive people cope with the amount of sexual rejection that desperate unattractive people get?

Yes I think this is a better way of framing the idea of sexual rejection.

I'd rather be an attractive man than an attractive women, even though the attractive man would still probably receive more rejections than the attractive woman would.

Attractive men have all the attracting prowess of an attractive woman without the social restrictions on their behavior. They also get all the other benefits of being a male, like extra physical safety, lower risks of STDs, extra respect in the workforce and society etc. Plus of course, they are encouraged to be proactive, meaning they are in control of who they date to a much larger degree than a comparable woman is: it must be like living in heaven for an attractive man these days.

I'd say the point when its better to a woman in terms of facing rejection would be about when people are of average to slightly above average attractiveness. Average people (and ugly people too) are going to face lots of rejection when finding partners and they don't have the tools and validation attractive people have to deal with it.

Average woman can also hook up with men above their league for STR, an option average men don't have.

Given most people are average I think it's a legitimate argument to say that women have it easier in dating/sex.
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sacca
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(Original post by ChickenMadness)
feminists are such selfish people lmao.
uh no we're not
its just that there is an epidemic of sad young boys on the internet blind to their own priveledges spouting misogynistic crap like the OP.
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ChickenMadness
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(Original post by sacca)
uh no we're not
its just that there is an epidemic of sad young boys on the internet blind to their own priveledges spouting misogynistic crap like the OP.
Lol they agreed to participate in studies to benefit themselves then refused to participate in studies that benefited other people. Thats a pretty text book example of a selfish person.
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Mike9910
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(Original post by sacca)
uh no we're not
its just that there is an epidemic of sad young boys on the internet blind to their own priveledges spouting misogynistic crap like the OP.
Yes and you're also blind to your own privileges as a woman (I assume you're female). Lack of empathy for less privileged groups in society is not something only one gender experiences. I've seen plenty of middle class, white women who not only refuse to see their privilege but also want additional privileges, despite being arguably the most pampered group in the whole of society.

I think feminists are right when they say the privileged are blind to their privileges. But don't make this a gender issue.
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sacca
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(Original post by ChickenMadness)
Lol they agreed to participate in studies to benefit themselves then refused to participate in studies that benefited other people. Thats a pretty text book example of a selfish person.
Not when the studies are patriachal in nature, the dude carrying them out is a well known rape apologist yet u MRAs still fling his **** around its disgusting


(Original post by Mike9910)
Yes and you're also blind to your own privileges as a woman (I assume you're female). Lack of empathy for less privileged groups in society is not something only one gender experiences. I've seen plenty of middle class, white women who not only refuse to see their privilege but also want additional privileges, despite being arguably the most pampered group in the whole of society.

I think feminists are right when they say the privileged are blind to their privileges. But don't make this a gender issue.
LOL being female is NOT a priveledge you are very sexist for saying that. men still have massive advantages in society today, i agree about your white women post, I'm a PoC and racial priveledge intersects with gender priveledge.
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ChickenMadness
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(Original post by sacca)
Not when the studies are patriachal in nature, the dude carrying them out is a well known rape apologist yet u MRAs still fling his **** around its disgusting




LOL being female is NOT a priveledge you are very sexist for saying that. men still have massive advantages in society today, i agree about your white women post, I'm a PoC and racial priveledge intersects with gender priveledge.
your perspective is actually amazing.

If you look at this from an objective view.

1) study that helps women - everyone is happy to participate
2) study that helps men - everyone apart from feminists are happy to participate.

you can only conclude that the feminists that took part are extremely selfish.

I don't label myself as anything (MRA) btw lol. I'm just a normal person.
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Mike9910
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(Original post by ChickenMadness)
Lol they agreed to participate in studies to benefit themselves then refused to participate in studies that benefited other people. Thats a pretty text book example of a selfish person.

Altruism is rare in our society.
In fact, I'd say the vast majority of the decisions we make are driven by selfish ends. I think being selfish is just being human, afterall our goal here is first and foremost the survival or our genes, the rest of humanity while auspicious to that goal is also disposable and a threat under certain circumstances.

There's nothing wrong with being a selfish person.

As someone who has spent the majority of his life chasing money, status and power i find it hard to relate to people who have dominant charitable instincts. The people whose charitable component overrides their selfish component are very rare indeed - so rare in fact we tend to hear about them on the news or in history books.
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ChickenMadness
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(Original post by Mike9910)
Altruism is rare in our society.
In fact, I'd say the vast majority of the decisions we make are driven by selfish ends. I think being selfish is just being human, afterall our goal here is first and foremost the survival or our genes, the rest of humanity while auspicious to that goal is also disposable and a threat under certain circumstances.

There's nothing wrong with being a selfish person.

As someone who has spent the majority of his life chasing money, status and power i find it hard to relate to people who have dominant charitable instincts. The people whose charitable component overrides their selfish component are very rare indeed - so rare in fact we tend to here about them on the news or in history books.
I disagree. If you purposely do things that negatively effect other people with no gain to yourself you're just a crap human being.
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sacca
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(Original post by ChickenMadness)
your perspective is actually amazing.

If you look at this from an objective view.

1) study that helps women - everyone is happy to participate
2) study that helps men - everyone apart from feminists are happy to participate.

you can only conclude that the feminists that took part are extremely selfish.

I don't label myself as anything (MRA) btw lol. I'm just a normal person.
Firstly you are right, you are normal and hence you are a misogynist who has no nuanced understanding of gender dynamics in modern society. I'm going to assume you don't study sociology or a related subject, hence I will kindly ask you to do more research before entering discussions on gender or other topics like race, priveledge and animal rights. You wouldn't start talking about university level physics with a physcist and saying "ah but I think you are wrong because xyz" because the truth is that you are completely unqualified to debate on the matter.
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ChickenMadness
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(Original post by sacca)
Firstly you are right, you are normal and hence you are a misogynist who has no nuanced understanding of gender dynamics in modern society. I'm going to assume you don't study sociology or a related subject, hence I will kindly ask you to do more research before entering discussions on gender or other topics like race, priveledge and animal rights. You wouldn't start talking about university level physics with a physcist and saying "ah but I think you are wrong because xyz" because the truth is that you are completely unqualified to debate on the matter.
you're a bigot.
doesn't take me any qualifications to see that
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Mike9910
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(Original post by sacca)
Not when the studies are patriachal in nature, the dude carrying them out is a well known rape apologist yet u MRAs still fling his **** around its disgusting




LOL being female is NOT a priveledge you are very sexist for saying that. men still have massive advantages in society today, i agree about your white women post, I'm a PoC and racial priveledge intersects with gender priveledge.
As a whole if we are talking about aggregate privilege I would say that men do have the better lot in our society.


But if we are talking about certain areas of privilege, such as in dating, then for sure women do have privilege. Having inherit sexual value (which means men have to invest more/be the initiators etc when forming sexual relationships), which women do, is a privilege. For sure this privilege doesn't extend to all women (maybe a woman is very ugly for example), but the vast majority of women do enjoy this privilege.

There are many privileges women experience in general society too, but I won't list them because I'm sure you're aware of them (and if not you can use Google) and I don't want this thread derailed.

I would rather be a middle class white (or even a minority) woman than a working class man. To say that women have it better than men or vice versa is really a bad way of analyzing things, it's far better to work out privilege on an case by case basis (EG just in the sphere of dating or in the workplace, or in the justice system).
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cole-slaw
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(Original post by Smaug123)
Surely the sexual rejection thing is cultural. It's simply a thing that men have to ask women out, and much less so vice versa (do correct me if I'm wrong), and are punished for asking out someone who doesn't want them to ask them out - that's nothing to do with the desperate man's actions. It's not their fault that society is set up so that they must make the advances, and that British culture isn't very good at saying no to things. (We don't really have a concept of the reply "No, I don't want to; it's nothing personal" to the request "I'd like a cup of tea please": any such "no, I don't want to" reply stings. Specialise to the case "I'd like to go out with you".)

Its a myth that men "have to ask women out".

Out in the real world, successful interactions require mutual effort and intent from both parties.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Mike9910)
I don't understand what you mean here. An attractive female by definition is one that can attract lots of male attention, hence why she's described as being attractive.

If a woman is not getting (much) male attention then she is not attractive.

I've never met a woman who looks attractive but doesn't receive positive validation from men, in a passive sense too.

The best way a woman can gauge how attractive she is is by measuring how much male attention she gets.

A woman should not feel attractive - because she isn't - if she's not receiving male attention.

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Requiring and receiving are two different things. People should look in the mirror and think their hot rather than basing their opinion on what a bunch of random people think, requiring validation from others simply makes one insecure.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Spandy)
But practically, is it possible?
I think so. It's a battle of the mind.
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Smaug123
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(Original post by cole-slaw)
Its a myth that men "have to ask women out".

Out in the real world, successful interactions require mutual effort and intent from both parties.
I don't dispute the second point. That's self-evident. The question is whether the initial effort has to be made by men.

As to the first point: that's a matter for data. The OP suggests that men do; you suggest that men don't. I can't find studies about it after a brief search.
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Mike9910
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Requiring and receiving are two different things. People should look in the mirror and think their hot rather than basing their opinion on what a bunch of random people think, requiring validation from others simply makes one insecure.
I don't think insecurity is a problem - all of us are insecure to some degree. Insecurity is what drives us to compete and better ourselves.

Since we're social creatures who base our identities on comparing ourselves to others I don't think it's possible not to seek validation from others. Validation is simply a way of confirming our identities or perception of ourselves. EG a girl who sees herself as beautiful might seek validation from men to confirm so. Or a musician might use the applause of the crowd to confirm he is a good music player. It's human behavior and nothing to be ashamed about.

How can you think of yourself as hot/attractive if you are not attracting anything? By definition to be attractive you must attract. If we're talking about things in a relationships context then to be attractive you must attract the opposite sex: the more of the opposite sex you attract the more attractive you are.

A person who is not attracting any attention from the opposite sex can tell themselves they are attractive but the disconnect between reality and what they're trying to think is so large it's hard to see them ever internalizing the idea.

On a side note:I used to see girls wearing "fat and proud" shirts around town all the time, but it's all so transparent. You can tell they don't actually believe their own propaganda.
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Mike9910
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(Original post by Smaug123)
I don't dispute the second point. That's self-evident. The question is whether the initial effort has to be made by men.

As to the first point: that's a matter for data. The OP suggests that men do; you suggest that men don't. I can't find studies about it after a brief search.
I think both points can be disputed.

In fact I would say most relationships start where one party is more interested than the other party. I also don't think there's mutual investment in the relationships in its initial stages: for example men are expected to cover most of the costs, make the decisions and take all rejection. In fact you could say its a pretty one sided equation if you don't take into account a woman's inherit sexual value, which may balance out the equation.

Many women will go out with a man they have no intention of dating LT just for free food and drink. Some women do this then later decide they like the man, but they certainly did not have the same intentions as the man did initially.

Some women go out on dates out of kindness or a lack of assertiveness when rejecting men they don't like. Some women even date these men they don't like.

Intentions are not always played out in behavior.

And I would certainly say that men do have to approach women unless they're very attractive. An average man could go years without being approached, such is the omnipotence of social norms in dating. Now of course you could still say that a man doesn't have to approach women - there's incidences where average men no doubt got approached by women - but the odds are the man who doesn't make approaches will be alone for a very long time and even if he did get a woman this woman would probably be of worse quality than had he been proactive.

If the world runs on numbers then you play the numbers, IE as a man you have to approach women, you don't try and beat the system because 99% of the time you lose.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Mike9910)
I don't think insecurity is a problem - all of us are insecure to some degree. Insecurity is what drives us to compete and better ourselves.

Since we're social creatures who base our identities on comparing ourselves to others I don't think it's possible not to seek validation from others. Validation is simply a way of confirming our identities or perception of ourselves. EG a girl who sees herself as beautiful might seek validation from men to confirm so. Or a musician might use the applause of the crowd to confirm he is a good music player. It's human behavior and nothing to be ashamed about.

How can you think of yourself as hot/attractive if you are not attracting anything? By definition to be attractive you must attract. If we're talking about things in a relationships context then to be attractive you must attract the opposite sex: the more of the opposite sex you attract the more attractive you are.

A person who is not attracting any attention from the opposite sex can tell themselves they are attractive but the disconnect between reality and what they're trying to think is so large it's hard to see them ever internalizing the idea.

On a side note:I used to see girls wearing "fat and proud" shirts around town all the time, but it's all so transparent. You can tell they don't actually believe their own propaganda.
I agree that insecurity can be used in a positive way but i don't really consider it a good thing overall, it's another barrier to true contentment in my opinion. I don't think you need to be insecure to be competitive since it is competition that drives our species, one can believe they will win and still want to compete to prove it to themselves.

I think it's difficult and i'd be lying if i said i was 100% secure myself but i do think it's possible and should be a goal.

Well this is about what one thinks of themselves rather than others. We've all seen the ugly guy with the hot bird because of the confidence he had in himself, the fact that others may believe one is unattractive is somewhat irrelevant when there are a mirade of factors that make somebody attractive and that self confidence can be predicated on success (i.e. your successful regardless of your looks, so you then feel attractive regardless of whether you objectively are). Though i suppose that again raises the question of what is attractive, you can have a face like a dogs ass but if you work out in the gym the rest of you can look pretty good. Personally speaking i was everything from ugly to cute a few years ago but i had a lot of success with women and so when i looked in the mirror i felt attractive, i suppose this is probably what has shaped my views (granted i was tall, skinny and had far better dress sense than most guys at the time so it's not like there was nothing good about me in appearance).

I'm certainly not suggesting that fat birds go around thinking they are hot, simply that objectively average or better people should seek to place their own opinion before others.

..

Reading back it occurs that it might be easier for men since we do the 'hunting', as opposed to women who are 'hunted'.

.
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Daenerys...
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A big reason for why mean get rejected more is because they don't pursue girls that are appropriate for their position, that is, they go for girls that are out of their league. If more men dated girls that were of a similar attractiveness men would report fewer rejections.


I've rejected countless boys/men over the years and it was only because they were less attractive than I or less financially stable.
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