Any rightists in house? Watch

Swanbow
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#41
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#41
(Original post by JohnPaul_)
Someone who is pro-capitalism, pro constitution (optional), anit-multiculturalism, smaller government etc...


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Pro-capitalism - More or less, although I think that some reform needs to happen.

Pro-constitution - I'm happy with the Monarchy in it's current place, and wish people would stop hampering on about it. But I'm very strongly in favour of House of Lords reform to get at least half of the House elected and to give it some more clout. I'm also in favour of electoral reform. In general I like our constitutional monarchy system, and prefer steady reform over radical changes.

Anti-Multiculturalism - I believe that ethnic minorities should make an effort to integrate within British society, but that doesn't mean that they can't retain aspects of their cultural identity. In general I'm in favour of immigration, but we need to get it right so we get the best and brightest to come to this country.

Smaller government - In places, yes. In general, no. I prefer the notion of 'better government' over 'smaller government'.


I don't think I align with the right, rather identifying on the left, but I do have more similarities with some on the right than I care to admit :lol:

The political compass puts me here, although I don't agree 100% with how they determine it.

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ModYom
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#42
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#42
(Original post by HigherMinion)
Thatcher didn't start anything- let me reiterate: we have never been a socialist state until WWII. Its introduction marked the end to British civilisation and the end of our empire.
Rather ironic then isn't it, that it was the Conservative Party who allowed the Scottish yes/no referendum, even giving the vote to 16 yr olds. Yes, the Tories who nearly BROKE UP THE UNION.
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ModYom
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#43
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#43
(Original post by HigherMinion)
Without a socialist healthcare system, you are sovereign as far as you feel no guilt for the pressure and stress you bring on your family and friends.
and if you have no family/friends or lack funds to pay for expensive operation, and insurance won't cover you - then what?

Any drugs that alter the mind also bring democracy and voting rights into question, so I think prohibition is far better an option than removing rights, don't you think
Clearly you are not a libertarian then.

I have a term for you, Zippy- fascism. left-wing authoritarianism.
Fascism is NOT left-wing -Fail
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The Socktor
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#44
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#44
Me. I hate people who write with the wrong hand.
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HigherMinion
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#45
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#45
(Original post by ModYom)
and if you have no family/friends or lack funds to pay for expensive operation, and insurance won't cover you - then what?



Clearly you are not a libertarian then.



Fascism is NOT left-wing -Fail
There is a lot of crossover between Libertarians and (paleo)Conservatives. Look up some of the writings or talks by Dr Sean Gabb of the Libertarian alliance. He's spoken several times at the Traditional Britain Group.

Fascism is not left wing? Were the Nazis fascist? I forget...

If you have absolutely no relations or friends and are poor, then you're living a poor life that will inevitably kill you. That is this hypothetical homeless man's choice.
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ModYom
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#46
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#46
(Original post by HigherMinion)
Fascism is not left wing? Were the Nazis fascist? I forget...
Nazism = Authoritarian - Socially conservative - State Control/Corporatism - Fascist = lOW: NOT Left-wing
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HigherMinion
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#47
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#47
(Original post by ModYom)
Nazism = Authoritarian - Socially conservative - State Control/Corporatism - Fascist = lOW: NOT Left-wing
Great mental gymnastics. Pls go now.
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Davij038
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#48
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#48
(Original post by HigherMinion)
Great mental gymnastics.

Well this is a first, we agree on something!

ModYom; Plenty of left wingers, notably Orwell have noted that fascism is left wing in origin.
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HigherMinion
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Davij038)
Well this is a first, we agree on something!

ModYom; Plenty of left wingers, notably Orwell have noted that fascism is left wing in origin.
First ChaoticButterfly, now you. The tide is turning, logic is taking a firm grip on TSR Now to make illegaltobepoor to agree with me, that would win me a diplomacy prize.
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ModYom
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Davij038)
Well this is a first, we agree on something!

ModYom; Plenty of left wingers, notably Orwell have noted that fascism is left wing in origin.
Humans are Ape in origin, does that mean we are still Apes?

Conservatism is feudalistic in origin, does that mean it is still a feudalistic ideology?

NO, it does not!

You are confusing the idea of State Control with Leftist ideology - plenty of right wing State autocrats out there , clearly not left wing : Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, leaders of Indonesia, Singapore, South Korea etc..(of the recent past), Pinochet....
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JohnPaul_
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#51
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#51
(Original post by ModYom)
Humans are Ape in origin, does that mean we are still Apes?

Conservatism is feudalistic in origin, does that mean it is still a feudalistic ideology?

NO, it does not!

You are confusing the idea of State Control with Leftist ideology - plenty of right wing State autocrats out there , clearly not left wing : Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, leaders of Indonesia, Singapore, South Korea etc..(of the recent past), Pinochet....
Hitler right-wing? Hilarious.


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JohnPaul_
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Swanbow)
Pro-capitalism - More or less, although I think that some reform needs to happen.

Pro-constitution - I'm happy with the Monarchy in it's current place, and wish people would stop hampering on about it. But I'm very strongly in favour of House of Lords reform to get at least half of the House elected and to give it some more clout. I'm also in favour of electoral reform. In general I like our constitutional monarchy system, and prefer steady reform over radical changes.

Anti-Multiculturalism - I believe that ethnic minorities should make an effort to integrate within British society, but that doesn't mean that they can't retain aspects of their cultural identity. In general I'm in favour of immigration, but we need to get it right so we get the best and brightest to come to this country.

Smaller government - In places, yes. In general, no. I prefer the notion of 'better government' over 'smaller government'.


I don't think I align with the right, rather identifying on the left, but I do have more similarities with some on the right than I care to admit :lol:

The political compass puts me here, although I don't agree 100% with how they determine it.

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You are definitely on the right.

Unless you align with the moral opinions of the left, your attitude towards marriage, welfare, drugs etc.


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HigherMinion
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#53
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#53
(Original post by ModYom)
Humans are Ape in origin, does that mean we are still Apes?


Humans were never apes, ya' doozy! Potential common ancestor=/= we were apes once.

Well done for recognising conservatism has nothing to do with economics and more with balance of power.




By the way, since everyone loves to claim Hitler was an evil right wing dictator, let me tell you that Nazi Germany was multiracial and indiscriminate at that. Like all Socialist states, they wanted good little workers. there are even pictures of black men working in the German army. Very progressive. And now, what seems to be Hitler's final "FU" to the West- we have one too!

Also, calling Hitler evil is synonymous to calling the German people of the time evil. Do you really want to cast moral judgement on a whole ethnicity like that? I would consider that a strong joust off your moral high horse, what?
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Captain Haddock
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#54
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#54
(Original post by JohnPaul_)
Hitler right-wing? Hilarious.


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Oh please. Don't pretend like Hitler being right wing is some kind of novel minority opinion as opposed to a view held by almost everybody in the world.

People who argue Hitler was left wing tend to be people who say things like this:

(Original post by HigherMinion)
By the way, since everyone loves to claim Hitler was an evil right wing dictator, let me tell you that Nazi Germany was multiracial and indiscriminate at that. Like all Socialist states, they wanted good little workers. there are even pictures of black men working in the German army. Very progressive. And now, what seems to be Hitler's final "FU" to the West- we have one too!
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JohnPaul_
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#55
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#55
(Original post by Captain Haddock)
Oh please. Don't pretend like Hitler being right wing is some kind of novel minority opinion as opposed to a view held by almost everybody in the world.

People who argue Hitler was left wing tend to be people who say things like this:
Ironic that you think facts are determined by majority rather than the independent truth. I couldn't care less how many people hold a particular view or don't.

Why not rebuttal what you quoted rather than just assert that it's stupid from the authoritative tone of majority you are demonstrating.... which leftists themselves so love.


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HigherMinion
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#56
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#56
(Original post by Captain Haddock)
Oh please. Don't pretend like Hitler being right wing is some kind of novel minority opinion as opposed to a view held by almost everybody in the world.

People who argue Hitler was left wing tend to be people who say things like this:
National socialism is a left wing position. The left don't want to be associated with Hitler though, so they do their best to steer that party clear away from their park. However, you could simply embrace his left-wing views for what they were. He did do some good in Germany, but it was a top-down central government which interfered intensely with the economy, which Britain has never had until post-war.

But it's fine, Haddock. You can maintain Hitler is a far-right baddie if you like. I'd like to hear the logic. "nationalism is right wing, therefore hurr durr let's ignore the other policies".


>view held by everybody in the world
The problem is you seem to believe you're in a majority simply because the MSM pushes your view. This reinforces you to the point where clearly your opinion=truth because the consensus makes it so.

"Hitler, when asked whether he supported the "bourgeois right-wing", claimed that Nazism was not exclusively for any class, and indicated that it favoured neither the left nor the right, but preserved "pure" elements from both "camps", stating: "From the camp of bourgeois tradition, it takes national resolve, and from the materialism of the Marxist dogma, living, creative Socialism"" - wikipedo

The irony of Hitler trying to please both the left and right is just like New Labour's "unifying voice of Britain" slogan. You can't get more fascist than claiming to speak for everybody.

What is nuance?
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Davij038
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#57
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#57
(Original post by ModYom)
Humans are Ape in origin, does that mean we are still Apes?
We are incredibly similar to apes

Conservatism is feudalistic in origin, does that mean it is still a feudalistic ideology?
In many ways yes actually.

You are confusing the idea of State Control with Leftist ideology - plenty of right wing State autocrats out there , clearly not left wing : Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, leaders of Indonesia, Singapore, South Korea etc..(of the recent past), Pinochet....
Hitler isn't easy to define as left or right wing- it should be noted though that he recruited the same people that the communists did and worked with them in Poland- Orwell notes how British communists were encouraged to view hitler in a favourable light.


I think what unites fascism and socialism is the contempt for the status quo and individual freedom placing tgd collective ends of the nation/ proletariat over all others.

Read the road to serfdom and 1984
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Captain Haddock
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#58
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#58
(Original post by JohnPaul_)
Ironic that you think facts are determined by majority rather than the independent truth. I couldn't care less how many people hold a particular view or don't.

Why not rebuttal what you quoted rather than just assert that it's stupid from the authoritative tone of majority you are demonstrating.... which leftists themselves so love.


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Can you point out exactly where I said the fact it's a majority belief is what makes it true? I'd be surprised if you can.

(Original post by HigherMinion)
National socialism is a left wing position. The left don't want to be associated with Hitler though, so they do their best to steer that party clear away from their park. However, you could simply embrace his left-wing views for what they were. He did do some good in Germany, but it was a top-down central government which interfered intensely with the economy, which Britain has never had until post-war.

But it's fine, Haddock. You can maintain Hitler is a far-right baddie if you like. I'd like to hear the logic. "nationalism is right wing, therefore hurr durr let's ignore the other policies".


>view held by everybody in the world
The problem is you seem to believe you're in a majority simply because the MSM pushes your view. This reinforces you to the point where clearly your opinion=truth because the consensus makes it so.

"Hitler, when asked whether he supported the "bourgeois right-wing", claimed that Nazism was not exclusively for any class, and indicated that it favoured neither the left nor the right, but preserved "pure" elements from both "camps", stating: "From the camp of bourgeois tradition, it takes national resolve, and from the materialism of the Marxist dogma, living, creative Socialism"" - wikipedo

The irony of Hitler trying to please both the left and right is just like New Labour's "unifying voice of Britain" slogan. You can't get more fascist than claiming to speak for everybody.

What is nuance?
The Nazis were anti-Communist, anti-Marxist, anti-trade union, anti-equality, ultra-nationalist, nativist and permitted private property. I'm sorry but ' interfering with the economy' does not make somebody left wing.
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Davij038
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#59
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#59
(Original post by HigherMinion)

By the way, since everyone loves to claim Hitler was an evil right wing dictator, let me tell you that Nazi Germany was multiracial and indiscriminate at that. Like all Socialist states, they wanted good little workers. there are even pictures of black men working in the German army. Very progressive. And now, what seems to be Hitler's final "FU" to the West- we have one too!
?
...And you've lost the plot again.

Nazi Germany did indeed have auxillaries serving for them. They weren't in any real position of influence though and were often used as cannon fooder.

The Nazi's were glaringly white supremacist- Hitler and company were even upset when they're Japanese Allies were successful in taking back white colonies from America and the British empire.
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HigherMinion
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(Original post by Davij038)
...And you've lost the plot again.

Nazi Germany did indeed have auxillaries serving for them. They weren't in any real position of influence though and were often used as cannon fooder.

The Nazi's were glaringly white supremacist- Hitler and company were even upset when they're Japanese Allies were successful in taking back white colonies from America and the British empire.
What's wrong with being white supremacist in a white continent? It's like suggesting that members of different ethnic groups have the same allegiance to their host nations and could easily become MPs and people in power. It's not going to happen. The US has this anti-racism white guilt setup which boosted Obama into power, but it would never happen in Europe.

However, the fact that they simply served is testament to the multiracial society. Being white supremacist is one thing, but suggesting that the contributions of these ethnic minorities were less because of the colour of their skin, Davij, I think takes the biscuit.
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