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    (Original post by L i b)
    I seem to remember a lot of this sort of stuff pre-referendum. Yes, people are legitimately concerned because they think the SNP are underhand.

    But the union has never been more secure in the last 30 years than it is now. The referendum is over, and the threat of having a UK Government reliant on SNP votes thankfully never happened.

    What is the SNP now? A faintly technocratic devolved administration in Scotland, and a loud but classless pressure group in our national parliament that wields no actual authority.

    I'm not really sure how you could have come off worse in all this. I don't take any joy in that, I simply ask you - what do you gain from it? You got a fair fight, and lost. It's my contention that you might as well make the most of being British citizens, vote for parties based on ideology rather than a rejected campaign for constitutional change and get on with your lives.
    They got 56 MPs and their biggest opposition in Scotland is in disarray, how have they lost? From where I am standing a second referendum is an inevitability and the union is on shaky ground.


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    (Original post by Midlander)
    They got 56 MPs and their biggest opposition in Scotland is in disarray, how have they lost?
    I didn't say the lost an election: they won many seats. But they lost a referendum which provided the core purpose to their movement, and their campaign in the election circled around them holding a balance of power at Westminster. So the two key things they wanted have been wrenched from them.

    From where I am standing a second referendum is an inevitability
    I'm sure that suits the SNP down to the ground. The more people fight an imaginary shadow policy, the less time they spend holding the SNP to account on their record in government in Scotland.

    The SNP aren't going to call a second referendum because they're quite aware they'd lose it again. Even if the did, it's more than probable the UK Government would simply not accede to their request: and why should it?
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    (Original post by L i b)
    The SNP aren't going to call a second referendum because they're quite aware they'd lose it again. Even if the did, it's more than probable the UK Government would simply not accede to their request: and why should it?
    Could be beneficial for Cameron et al to call their bluff and prove themselves right again?
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    (Original post by Moosferatu)
    Could be beneficial for Cameron et al to call their bluff and prove themselves right again?
    They lose one referendum, they start talking about another within days. Why should a second referendum loss harm them more than the first?

    And what does it say to all the people who campaigned, gave their all and voted in good faith believing - quite reasonably - that the result would be decisive?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    What was her fallback option?

    I doubt that even matters tbh, unless she leaves the seat at the next election and does something for a while, she is a career politician. Not saying thats wrong, but it is what it is.

    Also, since Paisley's MSP is SNP, I don't see how it was all that suprising, 26.9% swing was fairly middle of the pack.
    So every politician is a career politician then?

    It obviously wasn't surprising in hindsight or even on the night. Not many people would have been predicting an SNP gain there a few months ago though.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    Struggling how? She criticised the sitting MP for being a career politician then chose to run for MP at the age of 20 whilst studying specifically for a degree in politics. Are you defending her so resolutely because of her nationalist affiliation?
    No. I just recognize that she didn't mean 'someone who is employed as a politician' when she called him a 'career politician'.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    No, they usually mean someone who has had no other career other than politics.

    ie Tony Blair was in law, John Major was in banking (not career politicians)
    Ed Milliand and David Cameron were special advisers after doing a PoliticsPE degree (career politicians)

    So not every politician is a career politician.
    Fair point.

    Does working in a chip shop count?
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    (Original post by L i b)

    And what does it say to all the people who campaigned, gave their all and voted in good faith believing - quite reasonably - that the result would be decisive?
    That it was decisive...until the next one.
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    (Original post by Gordon1985)
    So every politician is a career politician then?

    It obviously wasn't surprising in hindsight or even on the night. Not many people would have been predicting an SNP gain there a few months ago though.
    Can you read?

    Obviously not everyone is a career politician. It means going straight into politics without having a real job first. Just like Mhairi Black then.

    Nigel Farage would be an example of a politician who isn't a career politician according to this definition.
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    (Original post by Gordon1985)
    That it was decisive...until the next one.
    When does it stop? Should we have a vote every couple of weeks until it comes out with the answer you want?
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    (Original post by Gordon1985)
    Fair point.

    Does working in a chip shop count?
    Can hardly have a part time career :P
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    Can you read?

    Obviously not everyone is a career politician. It means going straight into politics without having a real job first. Just like Mhairi Black then.

    Nigel Farage would be an example of a politician who isn't a career politician according to this definition.
    Obviously. How do you imagine I'm replying to these posts?

    I wrote the post you quoted before someone gave that as their definition. That's fair enough but that's not the definition I have in my mind when I hear or use that term and I don't think it's what Mhairi Black meant either.
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    When does it stop? Should we have a vote every couple of weeks until it comes out with the answer you want?
    Not every couple of weeks.
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    nicky's already said that something big would have to change for another referendum to be held

    i have no doubt it will be in SNP's manifesto at the scottish election though, probably worded carefully so it isn't obvious to everyone
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    (Original post by Gordon1985)
    Obviously. How do you imagine I'm replying to these posts?

    I wrote the post you quoted before someone gave that as their definition. That's fair enough but that's not the definition I have in my mind when I hear or use that term and I don't think it's what Mhairi Black meant either.
    She was elected because of her party and not on her own merits. So many MPs in Scotland displaced in the name of vague rhetoric.


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    (Original post by VladThe1mpaler)
    nicky's already said that something big would have to change for another referendum to be held

    i have no doubt it will be in SNP's manifesto at the scottish election though, probably worded carefully so it isn't obvious to everyone
    No Nicola said it wouldn't happen for a generation so we all should believe her. Pompous ******** Salmond said so as well.


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    (Original post by Midlander)
    She was elected because of her party and not on her own merits. So many MPs in Scotland displaced in the name of vague rhetoric.


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    True but what does that have to do with it. Not many MPs in Westminster are elected based purely, mostly, or even significantly because on their own merits. People overwhelmingly vote for parties, rather than candidates.

    The vast majority of the Scottish MPs displaced sat in safe seats without ever really facing a challenge, before this year, whether their rhetoric was vague or not.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    No Nicola said it wouldn't happen for a generation so we all should believe her. Pompous ******** Salmond said so as well.


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    It'll happen when people vote in a government running for it. My bet would be 2021-23.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    No Nicola said it wouldn't happen for a generation so we all should believe her. Pompous ******** Salmond said so as well.


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    If the Scottish people call for another referendum, then they will get another referendum. What the first minister or former first minister say is irrelevant really.
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    (Original post by Gordon1985)
    It'll happen when people vote in a government running for it. My bet would be 2021-23.
    Except not everyone votes for a party agreeing with every one of it's policies in the manifesto. Indeed very few fall in to this category, so I don't take an SNP majority as enough evidence that the Scottish electorate wants one. The last referendum showed this to be the case.


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