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Sturgeon is kicking Cameron's arse watch

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    (Original post by Observatory)
    This is also the impression I am getting. They need to keep the levels of hysteria up and the attention focussed on them because people forgetting about them or losing interest in the Scottish constitutional question is more dangerous to them than losing an argument or a vote.

    I do not really understand why he went to Edinburgh to meet with Sturgeon. This makes it look like Sturgeon is giving him orders, when in fact he can implement the Smith Commission's recommendations without any regard to the devolved government or the MPs of a minor third party. Cameron should absolutely try to appeal to ordinarily Scottish voters, many of whom vote SNP, but not to the SNP as a party. Sturgeon cannot be defeated head-on but she can be sidelined.
    A key part of SNP campaigning has been the attempt to make Scotland and the SNP synonymous. And from what I have seen, this has been very successful. Therefore, Cameron ignoring the SNP would be seen by many as Cameron ignoring Scotland, which would play nicely into the SNP's hands.
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    Sturgeon has Cameron by the short and curlies...

    She doesn't have to do anything because Scotland will be watching and if he also lies and doesn't come across with the goodies, then either a referendum will be brought forward in their manifesto or something else will...

    if Sturgeon doesn't comply and he didn't deliver she would come under great pressure for pro-indy voters.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    A key part of SNP campaigning has been the attempt to make Scotland and the SNP synonymous. And from what I have seen, this has been very successful. Therefore, Cameron ignoring the SNP would be seen by many as Cameron ignoring Scotland, which would play nicely into the SNP's hands.
    Then I see no way to win, because agreeing that the SNP is Scotland (which is effectively what he has done here) is simply conceding defeat in the long term. I agree that it might not be so easy as just refusing to meet them, but the lack of energy and initiative of the unionist parties is striking. If they are going to accept commands of the SNP then ultimately they are sleep-walking to independence. If they want to have agency of their own, then they need to set up their own stall. If doing so results in automatic defeat for them, then I think the situation is beyond saving.
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    I'm not convinced that Cameron is against the idea of devolution. The conservatives seem to have an ideological attachment to localism and devolution, and are largely against centralised power
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Then I see no way to win, because agreeing that the SNP is Scotland (which is effectively what he has done here) is simply conceding defeat in the long term. I agree that it might not be so easy as just refusing to meet them, but the lack of energy and initiative of the unionist parties is striking. If they are going to accept commands of the SNP then ultimately they are sleep-walking to independence. If they want to have agency of their own, then they need to set up their own stall. If doing so results in automatic defeat for them, then I think the situation is beyond saving.
    It's obviously hard for the pro-Union parties at the moment given the sudden rise of nationalism but I think the best way to "defeat" them would be to simply make them accountable. If an agreement can be reached that satisfies all but the most hardcore nationalists, then we can return to the day to day running of things (something that's taken a back seat since the referendum debate picked up). But the enhanced Scottish parliament will mean that the SNP will no longer be able to deflect the criticism of unpopular policies onto Westminster. I know it sounds scary giving the nats a bit more economic power but sometimes when people experience a taster of something they find out that they don't really want the full thing after all.
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    (Original post by babybuntin)
    l'll expose the Scottish Tory voters for what they really are.. They are enjoying the awards of the SNP while the south suffer all the cuts. They suck up the freebies under the SNP umbrella.
    in the meantime Labour are dead because they lied. it's quite simple.
    How exactly did labour lie?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...al-advice.html
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    (Original post by Llamageddon)
    I'm not convinced that Cameron is against the idea of devolution. The conservatives seem to have an ideological attachment to localism and devolution, and are largely against centralised power
    They've espoused that a lot. Thatcher did. They've also espoused a commitment to civil liberties. Personally I believe when the realities of the governing take hold, they never deliver on either of this. Thatcher ended up taking back power and becoming more dictatorial.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    It's obviously hard for the pro-Union parties at the moment given the sudden rise of nationalism but I think the best way to "defeat" them would be to simply make them accountable. If an agreement can be reached that satisfies all but the most hardcore nationalists, then we can return to the day to day running of things (something that's taken a back seat since the referendum debate picked up). But the enhanced Scottish parliament will mean that the SNP will no longer be able to deflect the criticism of unpopular policies onto Westminster. I know it sounds scary giving the nats a bit more economic power but sometimes when people experience a taster of something they find out that they don't really want the full thing after all.
    I don't disagree. The only avenues now are to abolish the assembly, devolve it further, or empower it further. Abolishing it would cause withdrawal, devolving it further would be risky, and so empowering it is the path of least resistance.

    The problem then becomes that with independence largely a reality, what's the argument for staying in the Union, given it's basically conceded that that's just a matter of expedience at this point?
 
 
 

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