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    (Original post by TrojanH)
    I think you should tell your mum and dad, they might be ashamed and what not but its a matter of integrity and honesty. Besides if you do get forced out your home, good ol Cameron will 'elp you out (haha, good luck). Joking aside, I do believe that your mum and dad will find it easier to 'forgive' you if you were honest about your feelings currently, rather than later; as they might see this as such a threat to their beliefs as you have clearly stated previously.

    Have you thought about asking the questions that have made you leave Islam onto forums or your local Mosque - I'm sure they'd up for a good theological debate

    Despite this, wish you well and good luck to continuing your life without Islam
    I am planning to tell them in time, but it's such a big thing that I would have to be totally sure if it's worth mentioning at that time, that's a bigger deal to me than them forgiving me for telling them my feelings now. I'd rather be emotionally/financially ready for whatever reaction, ahead of being open now and having a chance of forgiveness. Even then, it'd be the old 'May Allah guide you' rife I've heard all my life.

    And I have had plenty of debates and questions with 'Aalims' before leaving, it was a 2-3 month process and not one I took lightly.

    Appreciate the kind words, you too.
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    (Original post by Exon)
    What does your family think of the kafir?
    It's not something we've ever discussed openly, but they've said Ameen/Amen to prayers that have asked for the 'appropriate punishment' for Kafir. So yeah, whatever that means.
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    (Original post by h3isenberg)
    Lol the anti-pig propaganda is pretty rife. Forbidding the consumption of pork is one thing (even though there is no logical reason to do so), but it's essentially become an irrational aversion.
    It's taken so seriously too, some Muslim parents don't allow their children to say the word 'pig'. Absurd.
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    (Original post by rufflin)
    It's not something we've ever discussed openly, but they've said Ameen/Amen to prayers that have asked for the 'appropriate punishment' for Kafir. So yeah, whatever that means.
    No doubt they'll use that as an excuse if you tell them you're an apostate.
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    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)
    Another person who doesn't grasp the concept of trolls. If you were smart enough you'd know he isn't or was never Muslim. Must suck to be you
    No true Scotsman.
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    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)
    Another person who doesn't grasp the concept of trolls. If you were smart enough you'd know he isn't or was never Muslim. Must suck to be you
    I think you are a troll mate. You seem really bitter and butthurt that someone has left Islam to the point you said he made a religion up himself.

    You didn't understand the point he was making about theological determinism either and if you require 'proof' from the Qur'an for any point someone makes against Islam then you're quite narrow minded.
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    (Original post by rufflin)
    "God’s curse be upon the infidels! Evil is that for which they have bartered away their souls. To deny God’s own revelation, grudging that He should reveal His bounty to whom He chooses from among His servants! They have incurred God’s most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits the unbelievers.” Quran 2:89-2:90

    Satisfied?
    Ahhh another cherry picker. Picking quotes from the Quran without any context. Self-selective and self-serving.

    If you read on my friend:

    92. Moses came to you with clear proofs, yet you adopted the calf in his absence, and you were in the wrong.


    You will realise that the verse you have actually pointed out is directed at a period of time before Islam. "Disbelievers" was directed to the followers of Moses, whom begun worshipping the Cow rather than God as the message brought by Moses. They intentionally disobeyed the message of Moses sent by God.

    Do you want to have another go?
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    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)
    Ahhh another cherry picker. Picking quotes from the Quran without any context. Self-selective and self-serving.

    If you read on my friend:

    92. Moses came to you with clear proofs, yet you adopted the calf in his absence, and you were in the wrong.


    You will realise that the verse you have actually pointed out is directed at a period of time before Islam. "Disbelievers" was directed to the followers of Moses, whom begun worshipping the Cow rather than God as the message brought by Moses. They intentionally disobeyed the message of Moses sent by God.

    Do you want to have another go?
    Whatever the context, the fact is that people will be punished for not listening to Moses' message 'sent by God'. God had decided that this will happen before these people were born, therefore they were literally destined by the command of God, to disobey God and hence remain in the hellfire for no apparent reason.

    “Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.” Quran 9:73


    “Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.
    “Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: ‘Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'” Quran 22:19-20

    The list goes on. Context is irrelevant, the message is the same. God chose these people to be tortured.
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    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)
    Ahhh another cherry picker. Picking quotes from the Quran without any context. Self-selective and self-serving.

    If you read on my friend:

    92. Moses came to you with clear proofs, yet you adopted the calf in his absence, and you were in the wrong.


    You will realise that the verse you have actually pointed out is directed at a period of time before Islam. "Disbelievers" was directed to the followers of Moses, whom begun worshipping the Cow rather than God as the message brought by Moses. They intentionally disobeyed the message of Moses sent by God.

    Do you want to have another go?
    It's all lies I tell yah, anything against my argument is bull**** and I know it cos my mum and dad told me I was right.
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    (Original post by h3isenberg)
    I think you are a troll mate. You seem really bitter and butthurt that someone has left Islam to the point you said he made a religion up himself.

    You didn't understand the point he was making about theological determinism either and if you require 'proof' from the Qur'an for any point someone makes against Islam then you're quite narrow minded.
    I'm not upset that he's left Islam. I'm upset that he leaves and tries to reface the religion as Islam. Trying to be one of those "Heroes" that has managed to break loose from the chains of Islam that would have him otherwise decapitated.

    If his claims are true about Islam being the religion he claims it is, then the only reliable proof he can bring is that of the Quran, and not WikiIslam.

    Check your definition of a narrow-minded person. Listening to stories of these hypocrites without referring to the religion itself must surely fall in that category aye?
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    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)
    You will realise that the verse you have actually pointed out is directed at a period of time before Islam.
    How can that be? We have been told countless times by Moslems that Adam was the first Moslem, and he pre-dates Moses. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    How can that be? We have been told countless times by Moslems that Adam was the first Moslem, and he pre-dates Moses. :rolleyes:
    Those 'Moslems' are wrong. Adam wasn't 'Muslim'

    Islam was born in 610 AD.

    Wake up.
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    (Original post by rufflin)
    A build up of things that just didn't sit right with me. One main aspect that I couldn't understand was the fact that God was all-knowing, most forgiving etc, and everyone's life is determined before they are born. Essentially, God 'created' non Muslim humans knowing they would never enter heaven, which is absolutely absurd (e.g. a person born as a Hindu would be classed as a Kaafir/non-believer who would never enter heaven if he died as a Hindu, which God planned to happen anyway). A few other things, but this was the main reason.
    We believe if someone who is born into a different faith but they know about Muslim and understand it fully yet don't convert, then they are a kafir.

    But if someone is born into a different faith but has no knowledge of the existence of islam will be going heaven.

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    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)
    I'm not upset that he's left Islam. I'm upset that he leaves and tries to reface the religion as Islam. Trying to be one of those "Heroes" that has managed to break loose from the chains of Islam that would have him otherwise decapitated.

    If his claims are true about Islam being the religion he claims it is, then the only reliable proof he can bring is that of the Quran, and not WikiIslam.

    Check your definition of a narrow-minded person. Listening to stories of these hypocrites without referring to the religion itself must surely fall in that category aye?
    I'm not trying to 'reface' anything, I answered a question about why I left Islam. I bought you verses of the Quran, you're shrugging them off as being in a certain context. That wasn't the point I made about why I left, I had an issue with the determined fates of people who were chosen by God to be disbelievers, then to be thrown in the hell-fire because of it. Whether it was because they didn't accept Moses' message or Muhammad's message, the issue remains the same.
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    (Original post by thestudent101)
    We believe if someone who is born into a different faith but they know about Muslim and understand it fully yet don't convert, then they are a kafir.

    But if someone is born into a different faith but has no knowledge of the existence of islam will be going heaven.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    The thing is, Allah knows that these people would not become Muslim because he has written for it to happen. They are literally destined to be in the hellfire.
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    (Original post by h3isenberg)
    I think you are a troll mate. You seem really bitter and butthurt that someone has left Islam to the point you said he made a religion up himself.

    You didn't understand the point he was making about theological determinism either and if you require 'proof' from the Qur'an for any point someone makes against Islam then you're quite narrow minded.
    There's plenty of Internet trolls out there specially from the ex muslim society they troll a lot e.g. quantum, would not be surprised if this was a troll though xD anyway who cares live and let live if someone leaves islam good for him and goodluck in the future ciao
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    (Original post by rufflin)
    I'm not trying to 'reface' anything, I answered a question about why I left Islam. I bought you verses of the Quran, you're shrugging them off as being in a certain context. That wasn't the point I made about why I left, I had an issue with the determined fates of people who were chosen by God to be disbelievers, then to be thrown in the hell-fire because of it. Whether it was because they didn't accept Moses' message or Muhammad's message, the issue remains the same.
    That is because they are in certain context. You want to know why? Because there is an ENTIRE Surah dedicated in the Quran for these disbelievers. And because it is an entire chapter, we cannot use the argument of context:

    Chapter 109:

    Say, "O disbelievers,
    I do not worship what you worship.
    Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.
    Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.
    Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.
    For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

    That is an entire chapter, taken as a whole. Nobody can argue changes in context because it is all there.

    As you can see, Islam preaches religious freedom and tolerance and does not preach hate nor punishment.

    As for afterlife, nobody knows. Not even us Muslims know if we will enter heaven or hell. This is up to God and God alone to decide. So cherry picked verses from the Quran are irrelevant.

    If you were ever a real Muslim you'd know.
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    (Original post by ahmad97h)
    The idea of pre-determination is not one that what you decide has already been decided and you have no free will of your own. Basically, God created us with free will and he is out of time and space; therefore, he can see the future so what is written is your own decisions in the future. God is in the future and the past and the present as he does not have boundaries of time and space. Hope this helps you understand


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I'm amazed you expect such abstract and ambiguous post help someone understand something!
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    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)
    That is because they are in certain context. You want to know why? Because there is an ENTIRE Surah dedicated in the Quran for these disbelievers. And because it is an entire chapter, we cannot use the argument of context:

    Chapter 109:

    Say, "O disbelievers,
    I do not worship what you worship.
    Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.
    Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.
    Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.
    For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."
    So cherry picked verses from the Quran are irrelevant
    If you were ever a real Muslim you'd know.
    Aren't you cherry picking right now?
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    (Original post by MrKmas508)
    Aren't you cherry picking right now?
    I haven't picked verses with no context. So no, it is not cherry picking.

    As I said, those 6 lines are an entire chapter.

    You tried though, it's the thought that counts
 
 
 
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