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Should there be a ban on employers hiring EU citizens to do low skilled work watch

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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Haven't read rest of your posts yet so not sure the context but by enough do you mean if someone worked 40 hours in a stressful intense job and after paying bills had just enough to live off basic food thats enough to live off?
    Well.. yes?

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Even so it can vary, as a single guy living in dirt cheap accomodation after paying bills every week and no luxuries I would be reasonably well off(but even then not much more than on benefits and thats on dirt cheap rent)

    If I paid the going rates for rent in a lot of areas I would be lucky to have as much as on benefits then I would also have to cover things like prescriptions, eyetests etc.
    Houseshare
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    Without immigrants you will defnetley see the minmum wage go up to £14 an hour in menial jobs but
    with floods of people from Eastern Europe employers can be so picky and employ 5 people to do the job of 1 full time
    worker all on zero hours contract
    As a working class person I want to see a freeze in EU migrants
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    (Original post by Reue)
    Well.. yes?
    Houseshare
    Even houseshares can be almost as much as a flat in certain areas, at most £20 odd a week cheaper as less worry for bills but means you could end up with people who are a nightmare, loss of deposit or whatever

    Where I used to live was £370 a month average for a 1 bedroom property, £80-£85 per week for a bedsit which did include bills but many had limits and still had to pay CT on it sometimes.

    I spent a few months in student accomodation as it had a opening offer, worked out a little cheaper than a flat but not much and the rooms were so small it barely had room for a bed, toilet and desk, yet I could get a private flat in that area for LESS than the student place only difference was pay own bills but you had a room double the size, freshly decorated, own kitchen, new bathroom etc much better than the student accomodation and even if £20 more a month more was better.

    Where I last worked it may have just been a call centre but I had to continually deal with death threats on the phone, supervisors shouting at staff who were useless/slow despite meeting their quotas, having staff unable to use computers due to faults or even just not one being available getting wages docked for not doing their work or told to make up the time at the end of their shift, there was bullying going on and as the staff who did it were related to the supervisors they got away with it

    And factories were even worse but at least there before the recession I got about £8 a hour and all overtime was double pay and bank holidays triple pay christmas 4 times! its down to minimum now as another company(foreign) bought it out so its now minimum wage and oh all the staff are Polish now running a bus 20 miles away to the very estate where they live for free despite having local British born people desperate for work and who want to work there even for minimum wage lol.

    A living wage should not mean you are living off gruel every day and working long hours but it shouldnt be a life of luxury either it should at least be enough to make it feel worthwhile.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    A living wage should not mean you are living off gruel every day and working long hours but it shouldnt be a life of luxury either it should at least be enough to make it feel worthwhile.
    So are you suggesting minimum wage isnt enough? Why not? None of the figures you've quoted seem particularly bad.

    An 18yr old working full time on minimum wage will take home over £800 a month. So taking your £370 a month for accom and you're left with over £430 a month for food and bills.. plenty!
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    (Original post by _icecream)
    Without immigrants you will defnetley see the minmum wage go up to £14 an hour in menial jobs but
    with floods of people from Eastern Europe employers can be so picky and employ 5 people to do the job of 1 full time
    worker all on zero hours contract
    Happened before the immigrants arrived too, even back in the 90s when NMW came out my mum got like £1.60 a hour, when it went up to £2.50 I think they cut back on staff so people did the work of 2 or 3 people.

    Then slowly around the late 90's employers got more and more greedy cutting back, I remember council blocks of flats having gardeners and on site wardens but now nothing but even shops used to have more tils in operation now 1 at a time.
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    (Original post by Reue)
    So are you suggesting minimum wage isnt enough? Why not? None of the figures you've quoted seem particularly bad.

    An 18yr old working full time on minimum wage will take home over £800 a month. So taking your £370 a month for accom and you're left with over £430 a month for food and bills.. plenty!
    Not taking into account taxes, council tax, transport and that most 40 hour jobs are actually 35 as they include lunch breaks which are unpaid and very few full time work available in many areas

    Even before zero hour contracts I had a part time 12 hour a week contract and overtime was when company needed it and paid as much as 7 weeks in arrears.

    Then prescriptions, basic payments and so on.

    And for some areas those estimates are low, the place the rent was that had only minimal seasonal work and people commuted which cost like £40 a week

    So not taking into account the travel by bus to town, and even if you were in a bedsit it would be like £85 per week rent, £40 a week travel. lets say £25 a week in taxes thats £150 off the mark from a £175 a week wage and thats if you dont have to pay any CT or top up electric and before you buy toiletries or food.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Happened before the immigrants arrived too, even back in the 90s when NMW came out my mum got like £1.60 a hour, when it went up to £2.50 I think they cut back on staff so people did the work of 2 or 3 people.

    Then slowly around the late 90's employers got more and more greedy cutting back, I remember council blocks of flats having gardeners and on site wardens but now nothing but even shops used to have more tils in operation now 1 at a time.
    Having an open border with Europe makes it even easier for employers to reduce hours/be extremely picky, reduce wages and employ people on zero hours contract all because they can easily fire and employ 5 or 6 Eastern European.

    My last job I kept on getting my hours reduced because the employer kept on bringing in new people they were all Eastern European I had to leave because I was getting 6 hours a week worth of work.

    When I was 18 I got fired from my part time job for no reason, the next week they brought in 7 or 8 Eastern European
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Not taking into account taxes,
    0 income tax, 20 national insurance a month

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    council tax
    Reduced or free

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    transport
    bike

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    and that most 40 hour jobs are actually 35 as they include lunch breaks which are unpaid and very few full time work available in many areas
    Most 40 hour jobs are actually 37.5 paid hours which is what I based the monthly take home off of.


    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Even before zero hour contracts I had a part time 12 hour a week contract and overtime was when company needed it and paid as much as 7 weeks in arrears.
    I did specify full time.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Then prescriptions, basic payments and so on.
    HC1 form


    (Original post by drbluebox)
    And for some areas those estimates are low, the place the rent was that had only minimal seasonal work and people commuted which cost like £40 a week
    So move. Minimum wage is minimum wage all over the UK, go work full time in McDonalds up north where the cost of living is far cheaper

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    So not taking into account the travel by bus to town, and even if you were in a bedsit it would be like £85 per week rent, £40 a week travel. lets say £25 a week in taxes thats £150 off the mark from a £175 a week wage and thats if you dont have to pay any CT or top up electric and before you buy toiletries or food.
    Where have you pulled this "£25 a week in taxes" from?
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    Australians get paid crazy amounts of money for doing menial work and they have no open borders
    We should do the same close the borders and only allow highly skilled people like Doctors and Engineers
    All this non sense about EU free movement of people is just b*** it's a way to reduce wages and screw the working class people
    of this country
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    (Original post by _icecream)
    Australians get paid crazy amounts of money for doing menial work and they have no open borders
    We should do the same close the borders and only allow highly skilled people like Doctors and Engineers
    All this non sense about EU free movement of people is just b*** it's a way to reduce wages and screw the working class people
    of this country
    Again, why not regulate the market to pay people more for doing menial work? If employers are paying less than say the living wage for jobs but have the money to pay more if the supply and demand of labour tips in labours' favor it shouldn't be a problem.If you don't like the added bureaucracy and state interference of that then adopt the Friedman negative income tax. Then employers can pay peanuts but it will be additive on a basic income so people have enough and are always better off working.

    It makes no sense that people who are opposed to a a living wage on the grounds it would put businesses out of business then go on to support a drying up of the labour market by stopping immigration when that will have the same effect of destroying businesses.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Again, why not regulate the market to pay people more for doing menial work? If employers are paying less than say the living wage for jobs but have the money to pay more if the supply and demand of labour tips in labours' favor it shouldn't be a problem.If you don't like the added bureaucracy and state interference of that then adopt the Friedman negative income tax. Then employers can pay peanuts but it will be additive on a basic income so people have enough and are always better off working.

    It makes no sense that people who are opposed to a a living wage on the grounds it would put businesses out of business then go on to support a drying up of the labour market by stopping immigration when that will have the same effect of destroying businesses.
    That's still helping employers profit.
    Tbh I'd rather see 19 year old Joe from the estates is currently living on the dole to have the opportunity to earn a living wage doing a full time menial job at their local factory. This gives him the opportunity to earn his own money and not be a burden on the state. Rather than seeing bus load of Poles/Bulgarians and Romanians all willing to work for next to nothing on a ZHC.
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    (Original post by _icecream)
    That's still helping employers profit.
    Tbh I'd rather see 19 year old Joe from the estates is currently living on the dole to have the opportunity to earn a living wage doing a full time menial job at their local factory. This gives him the opportunity to earn his own money and not be a burden on the state. Rather than seeing bus load of Poles/Bulgarians and Romanians all willing to work for next to nothing on a ZHC.
    So? Are a communist? :hmmmm:

    Everyone gets a basic income so everyone is burden on each other. Well Joe could choose to work 3 or 4 days a week since he has the added basic income so he can more easily study part time to better himself or peruse things in life other than the 'opportunity' to make cardboard boxes for eternity. Plus then two people can do the same job. Unemployment isn't going to go away, it most likely going to get worse and stopping immigration wont change that. We need to drop this Victorian attitude to the morality of work.
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    (Original post by Reue)
    0 income tax, 20 national insurance a month

    Reduced or free

    bike

    Most 40 hour jobs are actually 37.5 paid hours which is what I based the monthly take home off of.

    I did specify full time.

    HC1 form

    So move. Minimum wage is minimum wage all over the UK, go work full time in McDonalds up north where the cost of living is far cheaper

    Where have you pulled this "£25 a week in taxes" from?
    Its called National insurance and the other tax(cant remember what)

    And by the way I live in Scotland, so if the rent is about £400 a month here(and Edinburgh is more like £500 for a flat share)

    And heres a biggie that people always mess up, where do you get the money to move? not everyone can rely on relatives or credit to move.
    And all the jobs I have worked have had lunch HOUR which means 5 hours less per week, it used to be the hour was paid but not in last 10 years or so.

    And I am sure people can bike 80 miles round journey a day, hey even in my home town people had to spend 2 hours each day on train which was about 75 miles each way since work wasnt available and that was BEFORE the recession and Polish people moved here since Scotland has a lot of old closed factories and mining industry.

    And council tax is often still payable in flatshares and bedsits and nowhere near free.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Its called National insurance and the other tax(cant remember what)
    There only 2 types of tax on income, one of which would be £0 and one would be about £20 on a minimum wage

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    And by the way I live in Scotland, so if the rent is about £400 a month here(and Edinburgh is more like £500 for a flat share)
    As I said houseshare; I live in the very expensive South East and can houseshare for less than that.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    And heres a biggie that people always mess up, where do you get the money to move? not everyone can rely on relatives or credit to move.
    How much does it really cost to move? Perhaps just a bit for transport and the room deposit for your new place.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    And all the jobs I have worked have had lunch HOUR which means 5 hours less per week,
    Really? All the minimum wage ones I've come across have had 30 mins paid break, 30 mins unpaid a day for 7.5 hours paid a day.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    And I am sure people can bike 80 miles round journey a day, hey even in my home town people had to spend 2 hours each day on train which was about 75 miles each way since work wasnt available and that was BEFORE the recession and Polish people moved here since Scotland has a lot of old closed factories and mining industry.
    Why would you be biking that far? It's a minimum wage job. Go find another which is closer to affordable housing. Heck, even in Reading you could rent a room for £300 a month and be in walking distance to a local McDonalds recruiting for full time staff.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    And council tax is often still payable in flatshares and bedsits and nowhere near free.
    If youre sole occupant of a property and on a low income; council tax is heavily reduced. If you're in a houseshare then it's split to become something even lower like £25 a month.
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    I find it curious how many people claim to support the working class in this country by bigging up the unions............and then simultaneously piss on them by supporting mass immigration of people competing for their jobs and saturating their labour and means of earning.

    I guess it's easy when you're middle-class and it's not your wages/hours/housing/areas that are being affected and it all gives you the chance to feel like the self-righteous social justice warrior snob that you are......before wondering why UKIP got 4 times more votes than The Green Party.

    Funny ol' world.
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    (Original post by _icecream)
    Maybe not seasonal farm work but any other work employers must make sure that they recruit British people first.

    The other day, I spoke to this agency to look for a summer job in a warehouse the agency is based in the UK and the lady picked up the phone and spoke to me in Polish, she really didn't need to speak in Polish she is in England.

    Farms wages is really low, which makes me think if the migrants were banned from working in the UK the employers would be forced to pay a little over the minimum wage to attract people
    Why should employers have to pay more than they have to for workers?

    Its like saying everyone have to buy British goods even if they are more expensive or lesser quality because it keeps British people in work. If you are so keen on employing British people, why don't you start a business and only employ them?
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    (Original post by Reue)
    There only 2 types of tax on income, one of which would be £0 and one would be about £20 on a minimum wage

    As I said houseshare; I live in the very expensive South East and can houseshare for less than that.

    How much does it really cost to move? Perhaps just a bit for transport and the room deposit for your new place.

    Really? All the minimum wage ones I've come across have had 30 mins paid break, 30 mins unpaid a day for 7.5 hours paid a day.

    Why would you be biking that far? It's a minimum wage job. Go find another which is closer to affordable housing. Heck, even in Reading you could rent a room for £300 a month and be in walking distance to a local McDonalds recruiting for full time staff.

    If youre sole occupant of a property and on a low income; council tax is heavily reduced. If you're in a houseshare then it's split to become something even lower like £25 a month.
    When I worked 20 hours a week I paid about £30 a week in NI and tax, then had to pay council tax of about £30 a month, lived in another place where it was £15 a week CT it all varies between how many tenants and how many rooms

    Even on benefits I have to pay £30 a month council tax, I paid more in a house share as one tenant was a student as even in Scotland CT is about £1300 a month for a small area and higher in other areas. so even with discount its a lot.

    and the full time jobs I have lived in has been a hour lunch break, and 2 x 15 minute breaks paid, I even have a friend who has diabetes who gets that but needs more.

    Moving costs would be 1 months rent in advance(many want 2 months now too) plus deposit equal to a months rent.

    And areas where I lived minimum wage jobs even at McD's are hard to find, not impossible but limited compared to applicants, hey even have Polish workers there now.

    The only place near me to get a chance at the job is the city 15 miles away.

    The reason why houseshares cost more as its flatshares up here i.e 2 bedroom, at most you get a 3 bedroom place or people using a living room as a bedroom(and often using the money from the 2 other tenants to cover rent and bills so they themselves live rent free very few actual houseshares,

    And in general the closer you are to a workplace the more expensive to live so communiting is the only option, it may work out the same as renting in the long run but if you lose your job then you would be unable to pay rent as the top up amount from benefit would be too high.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    When I worked 20 hours a week I paid about £30 a week in NI and tax,
    On minimum wage? You shouldnt have.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    then had to pay council tax of about £30 a month
    Very reasonable

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    as even in Scotland CT is about £1300 a month for a small area and higher in other areas. so even with discount its a lot.
    Impossible. Even in the highest Scottish council tax banding the amount would only be about £260 a month, and that includes Water bills in Scotland.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    And areas where I lived minimum wage jobs even at McD's are hard to find, not impossible but limited compared to applicants, hey even have Polish workers there now.
    Doesn't seem to be hard to find where I live:



    Infact there's full time positions available in every single one of the McDonald's in 10 mile radius. I find it hard to believe the situation isnt similar elsewhere in the UK.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    The only place near me to get a chance at the job is the city 15 miles away.
    So move there?

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    And in general the closer you are to a workplace the more expensive to live so communiting is the only option,
    Rubbish. The costs of commuting will usually far outweigh any extra cost in having a houseshare closer to a town centre (London being the exception).
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    I guess it's easy when you're middle-class and it's not your wages/hours/housing/areas that are being affected and it all gives you the chance to feel like the self-righteous social justice warrior snob that you are......before wondering why UKIP got 4 times more votes than The Green Party.
    Do the middle class typically vote for Greens? I would have thought it far more likely to have been Conservative. That was certainly the result in my relatively affluent local area.
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    (Original post by Reue)
    Do the middle class typically vote for Greens? I would have thought it far more likely to have been Conservative. That was certainly the result in my relatively affluent local area.
    It's not so much that middle class typically vote for Greens (there aren't that many Greens), but most Greens are absolutely middle class.
 
 
 
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