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So we are moving towards a totalitarian state, you guys ready? watch

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    (Original post by NHM713)
    I don't know about you, but, I know social conditions have a lot to do with levels of crimes, doesn't take decades to realise that. Once that is understood, the idea that CCTV coverage, is anywhere near good enough an alternative is laughable.
    I never suggested CCTV was an alternative.. or indeed even a method of reducing crime.
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    (Original post by NHM713)
    Where'd you get that from?
    1984.
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    (Original post by NHM713)
    I'm not paranoid.
    (Original post by NHM713)
    They are monitoring us.
    ...
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    What is your answer then?
    It's not my answer, common sense points out that there is something seriously with society wrong if we have issues like crime. CCTV is nothing more than a symbolic gesture, it's mostly there to be used against the people than for it. You only have one life, you don't live passively let someone else make the rules, but, let me degress out of fear of sounding like a motivational speaker.
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    (Original post by Reue)
    I never suggested CCTV was an alternative.. or indeed even a method of reducing crime.
    But, your satisfied with things as they are?
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    (Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
    1984.
    I haven't watched it or read the book, but look what happened there, didn't end well.
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    (Original post by NHM713)
    But, your satisfied with things as they are?
    I didnt say that either :s
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    (Original post by Reue)
    I didnt say that either :s
    Obviously not verbatim, but you are saying it implicitly.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Grade A paranoia. They aren't interested in monitoring you if you have done nothing wrong. CCTV can quite often provide vital evidence in convictions.
    If you are talking about CCTV specifically then I have no issue, but if you're implying that they only monitor (that is, record electronic communications) people that are 'of interest' then you are living in a dream world.
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    (Original post by JoshDawg)
    Seriously? Do people think OUR government are in control of every aspect of our lives? You can say whatever you want, what you should worry about is the public backlash, not the concern (invented in your own head) that the government is tutting at what you're saying.

    Unless you're a terrorist, then you should be concerned.
    This is a view I have a bit of the problem with as of the mid 00s - today. The government doesnt openly claim to seek control and influence over every aspect of our lifes howver it also claims to be cracking down on terrorism which is a relative non-issue compared to others faced by the UK.

    The issue with this "crack down on terrorism" is that its moving the definition of what terrorism closer and closer to what has always been considered industrial action and public protest. All in the name of protecting the British public. Some of the terrorism legislation that has been voted down in the past but is now being very quickly pushed through parlement and lords is damn right terrifying. Government attitudes to public organisation of protests and industrial action is getting very very hostile and they are making it very easy for people involved to get charged with charges which vastly outweigh the offense commited. Public order defenses are getting moved closer and closer to "treason" against the state which ofcourse comes with disproportionatly high sentences because folks decided they wanted to stand up against state. There is also the drive for public involvment in policing minor crimes, this echos pilots of policies used in East Germany 50 years ago under the STASI, they are only made worse by the fact that people are so willing nowadays to give up there own privacy willingly.
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    (Original post by NHM713)
    It's not my answer, common sense points out that there is something seriously with society wrong if we have issues like crime. CCTV is nothing more than a symbolic gesture, it's mostly there to be used against the people than for it. You only have one life, you don't live passively let someone else make the rules, but, let me degress out of fear of sounding like a motivational speaker.
    There has always been crime and until we can control people (which really is totalitarian) we can never completely eradicate crime, unless you have a solution?

    Could you provide some examples where CCTV has been used against those it was put in place to protect, because I can find thousands of examples where it has been used to convict those of wrong doing.

    You live in society which is dictated by other people's rules, we all do (in the west).

    (Original post by TheThiefOfBagdad)
    If you are talking about CCTV specifically then I have no issue, but if you're implying that they only monitor (that is, record electronic communications) people that are 'of interest' then you are living in a dream world.
    I think online monitoring is a completely different kettle of fish. But on the whole it is used to monitor people of interest.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    There has always been crime and until we can control people (which really is totalitarian) we can never completely eradicate crime, unless you have a solution?

    Could you provide some examples where CCTV has been used against those it was put in place to protect, because I can find thousands of examples where it has been used to convict those of wrong doing.

    You live in society which is dictated by other people's rules, we all do (in the west).
    You don't control people, do you want to be controlled? we are not robots, or objects to be manipulated, that is not how you treat human beings.

    I don't know that they protect people per se, I think they create at atmosphere of 'someone's watching, better not do it'. I also don't know your definition of 'wrong doing' is, but, I'm sure they are used to fine people more often than they are used to solve a serious crime (violent crime).

    But, why?
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    I think online monitoring is a completely different kettle of fish. But on the whole it is used to monitor people of interest.
    Cool. We are in agreement.
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    (Original post by NHM713)
    You don't control people, do you want to be controlled? we are not robots, or objects to be manipulated, that is not how you treat human beings.

    I don't know that they protect people per se, I think they create at atmosphere of 'someone's watching, better not do it'. I also don't know your definition of 'wrong doing' is, but, I'm sure they are used to fine people more often than they are used to solve a serious crime (violent crime).

    But, why?
    I don't want to be controlled and I never even suggested that I did.

    But without controlling people how do you suppose we eradicate crime? Stop dodging the question and answer it.

    My definition of wrong doing is illegal activities. Got any evidence to make you so "sure" or are you actually just guessing?

    Why? Because that is part of civilisation, without rules those with questionable morality and ethnics would have no benchmark to set themselves against and what dictates social and moral acceptabilities.

    Do you think we should get rid of all CCTV?
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    I don't want to be controlled and I never even suggested that I did.

    But without controlling people how do you suppose we eradicate crime? Stop dodging the question and answer it.

    My definition of wrong doing is illegal activities. Got any evidence to make you so "sure" or are you actually just guessing?

    Why? Because that is part of civilisation, without rules those with questionable morality and ethnics would have no benchmark to set themselves against and what dictates social and moral acceptabilities.

    Do you think we should get rid of all CCTV?
    When you talk about 'people' I'm throwing you and myself in the mix, because we are people too, remember.

    Well, you need to know why we commit crimes in the first place; as I said before, it has to do with the social conditions the person is brought up in. You are less likely to commit a crime (I use the word, for if you have a well rounded human being, with all your basic needs met. would you agree? therefore the standard of living for all needs to improve. Nothing I have said here, is anything new.

    What is legal/illegal? the law. What is the law?..... Sorry, evidence of what, exactly?

    Civilisation??We are barely civilised.

    Getting rid of CCTV surveillance is just as meaningless and having it. It's us we should be more concerned with.
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    (Original post by NHM713)
    What is the law?
    Top question.

    I'd suggest that, at a glimpse, it's a set of rules based around morality laid down by a governing body that all of the subjects of the land must adhere to.

    I say morality due to the laws of rape, murder, thievery, etc, all being things that are considered immoral due to the knowing harm inflicted on the victim by the perpetrator.

    Once you get in a little deeper things start to get... blurry.

    For example, the illegalisation of cannabis: there's nothing immoral about a person consuming whichever substances they choose to ingest, and yet by making it illegal the government seems to have chosen an immoral path by taking that choice (and the personal responsibility) away from the person (and this is aside from the amount of incredibly dubious "studies" into the area that the government has produced, along with plenty of misinformation, in a bid to keep the social stigma concerning cannabis where it is).

    Some laws obviously benefit society as a whole, but others seem like they've been introduced purely for political reasons that not everybody agrees with.
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    (Original post by NHM713)
    When you talk about 'people' I'm throwing you and myself in the mix, because we are people too, remember.

    Well, you need to know why we commit crimes in the first place; as I said before, it has to do with the social conditions the person is brought up in. You are less likely to commit a crime (I use the word, for if you have a well rounded human being, with all your basic needs met. would you agree? therefore the standard of living for all needs to improve. Nothing I have said here, is anything new.

    What is legal/illegal? the law. What is the law?..... Sorry, evidence of what, exactly?

    Civilisation??We are barely civilised.

    Getting rid of CCTV surveillance is just as meaningless and having it. It's us we should be more concerned with.
    Given that the standard of living in the UK is actually very high it does not correlate to our crime rate. Most people have all their basic needs met, yet they commit crime, why is that?

    You know what the law is. But since you want to play that game here is a definition for you, Law - the system of rules which a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties.

    Evidence that makes you so "sure" that CCTV is used predominantly for the purpose of issuing fines and not other "more important" crimes.

    Barely civilised compared to what? I think we are incredibly civilised compared to 100 years ago or even 500 years ago.

    So convictions and evidence gained from the use of CCTV is meaningless?
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    Personally, I don't have a huge problem with cctv, it's online monitoring I have a problem with. Banning online encryption just sounds absolutely absurd to me.
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    The UK is a police state and people who accept their oppression and servitude will put up with it. Huxley predicted this.

    (Original post by JoshDawg)
    Seriously? Do people think OUR government are in control of every aspect of our lives?.
    Yes, because they are, and only a complete and utter moron would think otherwise.


    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Grade A paranoia. They aren't interested in monitoring you if you have done nothing wrong. CCTV can quite often provide vital evidence in convictions.
    People in pre-Soviet Union Russia had the same apathetic attitude. Funny how that all turned out....aye?
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    (Original post by Mr JB)
    The UK is a police state and people who accept their oppression and servitude will put up with it. Huxley predicted this.


    Yes, because they are, and only a complete and utter moron would think otherwise.
    It must be awful for you to be walking around worrying about you being oppressed and controlled. Guess you know how the feminists feel.
 
 
 
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