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Lefties- if we're not free, what should be banned? watch

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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Leading on from my horseshoe thread I thought I'd post a thread about human freedom and its relatedness to the horseshoe theory.

    In brief, socialists and the far right do not believe we as individuals are free, rational beingsas society is not free by their moral standards- in short, the far more predominant left view that we are shaped by our environment and that we are being enslaved by a culture of say anti immigration, anti welfare and consumerism etc. the authoritarian right meanwhile also feel that we are being enslaved to a pseudo communist, immoral and degenerate society.

    This is where horseshoe theory comes in: Far left and far right groups wish to change society against the liberal consensus which in short means creating a planned goal for society rather than allowing individuals to achieve their own ends in the present culture- therefore people in the UAF justify silencing anyone they deem to be racist (which seems to be very broad) and the EDL justify intimidating members of ethnic minorities.

    So to the Socialist members of this board (and the far fewer authoritarian right wingers) what would you justify banning in order to make an ideal and freer society?

    And more to the socialists, why would it not be valid to become more illiberal in order to change the unfair and unfree system: for instance

    To end violence should we not end the culture of violence found in video games, you'd, films, books etc?

    To end demeaning treatment of women should we ban pornography and s number of inappropriate toys for kids?

    Surely these cultural influences are a far more dire threat than Rupert Murdoch

    ChaoticButterfly Bornblue The_Mighty_Bush Rakas21


    (These guys are not neccessarily far left/ far right!)
    But the horseshoe theory is dumb. You can be up for a planned economy while still supporting social freedoms, and you can believe in the imposition of sharia law supporting free markets.


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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    Yes, people who say that the media doesn't have a huge impact are wrong however all you seem to think is important is the media while you deliberately ignore the impact of the education system from primary to tertiary in forming public opinion.

    News media is overwhelming consumed by grown adults who have a greater ability to form their own opinions. In the education system you have leftist teachers getting 6 year olds to sign pledges in support of transsexuality. There was even a case in Italy where primary school children were being commanded to cross dress.

    Is this because it doesn't suit your agenda?
    I've never said the media is the only factor - but I'd certainly say by far and away its the biggest.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I've never said the media is the only factor - but I'd certainly say by far and away its the biggest.
    Why is the news media "by far and away the biggest" when not that many people actually read them regularly, they are almost always fully fledged adults when they do and they often already have their own political beliefs at that point?

    Compared to real intimate contact with teachers for 30 hours a week for at least 13 years when they are young and at their most impressionable?
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    Why is the news media "by far and away the biggest" when not that many people actually read them regularly, they are almost always fully fledged adults when they do and they often already have their own political beliefs at that point?

    Compared to real intimate contact with teachers for 30 hours a week for at least 13 years when they are young and at their most impressionable?
    Because most 'fully fledged' adults aren't political geeks and don't think in terms of ideology but issues. They live busy lives don't have time to do all their own research and rely on the media to keep them updated- the same media that is incredibly right wing/pro conservative (whichever one you prefer as you see the Tories as socialist for some reason )

    Teaching profession is lefty yeah I'll give you that - but that's only young people who are affected and by and large they don't vote and they soon leave education.
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    (Original post by ibzombie96)
    The tax credit cuts were heavily discussed when they were announced. That it was passed through Parliament is no real surprise - it's just the implementation of policy. You might remark that it got surprising cross-bench support, but other than that it was wholly uninteresting. These cuts were both praised and criticised by the media when they were announced. If people won't know about the tax credit cuts, it's because they haven't got a memory that stretches back 2 months.
    These cuts were absolutely not scrutinised or criticised by the media except maybe the guardian and mirror - the rest glossed over the cuts and led with front line pages about the national 'living wage ' despite it not being a 'living wage' and only applying to over 25s.


    Now they pass through 4.6 billion worth of cuts to the lowest earners and apart from the guardian, every paper - including the independent led with a smear story on Corbyn and the national anthem.

    It's outrageous - the Media yet again acting as a Tory party cheerleader - you'd be forgiven for not knowing about this bill as none of the effing papers reported it.

    The level of bias and pure propaganda is astonishing. Yes the guardian hates he Tories but tent certainly aren't a labour cheerleader and are quite critical of labour - the right wing papers on the other hand may as well be written by David Cameron and Ian Duncan smith.


    No doubt you'll argue for the sake of it though.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Dear lord tell me you didn't just use something from the Speccie to explain socialism and young people :'
    I'd use the guardian if it supported my own experience and point of view and was was relatively reputable IE not the Mail or RT.




    [/quote]
    One can only imagine you won't be going back to the centrist Lib Dems under Farron with their recent identity politics virtue signalling[/QUOTE]

    To be honest I've paid zero attention to them after listening to Norman baker and Farron at the hustlings...I'm still a big Clegg fan but I simply disagree with those two. In addition, as a militant atheist I couldn't condone voting for an evangelist. There are other matters too where I no longer agree with the party.
 
 
 
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