GCSEs and Oxbridge
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Original post by Little Toy Gun
Source? Evidence?
You need to prove both of these:
1. The typical successful candidate at Oxford has more than 8A*s in GCSE.
2. The typical successful candidate at Cambridge doesn't.
Only then we can start discussing whether this shows that if you don't have good GCSEs, you shouldn't apply to Oxford no matter what a-levels you are getting.
To prove this, you will at least need to prove that people with great a-levels but poor GCSEs are rejected from Oxford but will not be rejected by Cambridge.
You need to prove both of these:
1. The typical successful candidate at Oxford has more than 8A*s in GCSE.
2. The typical successful candidate at Cambridge doesn't.
Only then we can start discussing whether this shows that if you don't have good GCSEs, you shouldn't apply to Oxford no matter what a-levels you are getting.
To prove this, you will at least need to prove that people with great a-levels but poor GCSEs are rejected from Oxford but will not be rejected by Cambridge.
I didn't say any of that and I don't understand where you got that from what I said.
I couldn't find more recent statistics on short notice but have a look at this, http://www.stdominics.org.uk/media/uploads/Supporting%20Students%20-%20NI.pdf I'm certain that the grades have increased since 2010 and I have one from their department of medicine. Unless you're going to reply with something at all helpful to my initial question, do not respond at all. I really don't feel like getting into a fight on the internet about something so silly.
Update:
And someone has kindly found that successful applicants do tend to have around 8A*'s at GCSE.
http://university.which.co.uk/advice/ucas-application/what-do-i-need-to-get-into-oxford-or-cambridge-straight-a-s
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Chief Wiggum
Tbh I'd say the TSA tends to be taken less seriously by Cambridge than the pre-interview tests are taken at Oxford. I think at Oxford the pre-interview tests can have a pretty large weighting on who is shortlisted for interview.
Maybe because Cambridge require UMS to be declared, so it's almost as if they have another way of comparing their applicants before interview? Yeah, I've been told the LNAT has a very significant importance over who gets invited!
Original post by roarchika
(I'm probably going to be done writing my personal statement by the second week of my summer holidays too. I like to prepare ahead eheheh!)Me too! I'm also thinking of applying for medicine and that's also really competitive. Good luck with your application but from the looks of it you'll do great!
Original post by roarchika
Maybe because Cambridge require UMS to be declared, so it's almost as if they have another way of comparing their applicants before interview? Yeah, I've been told the LNAT has a very significant importance over who gets invited!
Essentially, yeah. That's by no means the only thing they use to shortlist for interview but it's one of the most important ones.
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this but as long as you look at the qualification requirements for your course, you should be fine. Some Uni courses have GCSE requirements at certain grades, you have to check to see what you need. There will always be exceptions too.
The requirements aren't always set in stone if they're not too important, A-levels will be the main grades that they will be looking at as well as any course-based exams that they require like MAT. Most importantly, the grades will get you so far - in the interview, it will be you and how well you do then that will probably be a deciding factor.
The requirements aren't always set in stone if they're not too important, A-levels will be the main grades that they will be looking at as well as any course-based exams that they require like MAT. Most importantly, the grades will get you so far - in the interview, it will be you and how well you do then that will probably be a deciding factor.
Original post by Thediplomat56
Hi, my GCSEs were 3As and 3Bs and i got my invite to I interview at Cambridge today!
Far off 13A* let me tell you and I still got an interview!
It doesn't say anything about whether I will get in but don't think that you can't even get an interview without 13A*s !
Far off 13A* let me tell you and I still got an interview!
It doesn't say anything about whether I will get in but don't think that you can't even get an interview without 13A*s !
What was the rest of your application like???
Original post by Little Toy Gun
It's a myth that you should apply to Cambridge instead if you've got bad GCSEs. What Oxford does say is that they look at your progression from GCSEs to more recent qualifications.
Just because TSR tries to assert over and over again a myth doesn't make it fact. This is without mentioning the fact that most of those people never even have applied to Oxford. The most recent 'evidence' I've got from them was that successful candidates at Oxford tend to have 3 A*s+, as if successful candidates at Cambridge don't have them.
Just because TSR tries to assert over and over again a myth doesn't make it fact. This is without mentioning the fact that most of those people never even have applied to Oxford. The most recent 'evidence' I've got from them was that successful candidates at Oxford tend to have 3 A*s+, as if successful candidates at Cambridge don't have them.
I swear I went to this Oxford open day and the admissions tutor told me that if you don't have at least 4A*'s at GCSE you are not looking to get in, except for if you are in some very underachieving schools. I don't think you need 10 A*'s but they do really care about your GCSE's because apparently they conducted a research and found GCSE's to be a better predictor.
Original post by roarchika
Hell if I know, though I'd assume it's around the same?
I just asked my sister - apparently Cambridge has more course-specific tests for admissions, but otherwise their standards are basically the same. She did extensive research on both since she had freedom of choice (though I, unless I want to be a traitor, cannot go to anywhere but Oxford(!) ), so I'm going with what she says!
I just asked my sister - apparently Cambridge has more course-specific tests for admissions, but otherwise their standards are basically the same. She did extensive research on both since she had freedom of choice (though I, unless I want to be a traitor, cannot go to anywhere but Oxford(!) ), so I'm going with what she says!
In this case it means people on TSR indeed shouldn't advise against people applying to Oxford. You cannot compare the two universities with only (unproven) numbers from one of them.
Original post by autumnblue
Me too! I'm also thinking of applying for medicine and that's also really competitive. Good luck with your application but from the looks of it you'll do great!
Me too! I'm also thinking of applying for medicine and that's also really competitive. Good luck with your application but from the looks of it you'll do great!
Have you spoken to the admissions office about this? While I'd normally say apply anyway, medicine, because of how competitive it is, is the great exception to a lot of advice about Oxford. With medicine, they're quite clear how they shortlist for interview and number of A*s does play a huge role in that:
http://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/medicine/pre-clinical/statistics
Original post by TrotskyiteRebel
I swear I went to this Oxford open day and the admissions tutor told me that if you don't have at least 4A*'s at GCSE you are not looking to get in, except for if you are in some very underachieving schools. I don't think you need 10 A*'s but they do really care about your GCSE's because apparently they conducted a research and found GCSE's to be a better predictor.
And did an admission tutor from the same discipline at Cambridge tell you that you can definitely get in with fewer than 4 A*s even in a top performing school?
What you said proved nothing when this is about comparing the two universities.
Original post by autumnblue
I didn't say any of that and I don't understand where you got that from what I said.
I couldn't find more recent statistics on short notice but have a look at this, http://www.stdominics.org.uk/media/uploads/Supporting%20Students%20-%20NI.pdf I'm certain that the grades have increased since 2010 and I have one from their department of medicine. Unless you're going to reply with something at all helpful to my initial question, do not respond at all. I really don't feel like getting into a fight on the internet about something so silly.
Update:
And someone has kindly found that successful applicants do tend to have around 8A*'s at GCSE.
http://university.which.co.uk/advice/ucas-application/what-do-i-need-to-get-into-oxford-or-cambridge-straight-a-s
I couldn't find more recent statistics on short notice but have a look at this, http://www.stdominics.org.uk/media/uploads/Supporting%20Students%20-%20NI.pdf I'm certain that the grades have increased since 2010 and I have one from their department of medicine. Unless you're going to reply with something at all helpful to my initial question, do not respond at all. I really don't feel like getting into a fight on the internet about something so silly.
Update:
And someone has kindly found that successful applicants do tend to have around 8A*'s at GCSE.
http://university.which.co.uk/advice/ucas-application/what-do-i-need-to-get-into-oxford-or-cambridge-straight-a-s
Oh god. Do you have trouble reading?
First of all, it says 'Oxford or Cambridge', NOT 'Oxford not Cambridge'.
Secondly, they 'found' nothing. It's their 'guesstimate'.
I'm talking the myth on TSR saying that people with poor GCSEs but great a-levels should apply to Cambridge not Oxford. There's absolutely no evidence so far that has suggested that, whilst Oxford clearly stated that they take into account of the improvement after GCSEs.
If you think this isn't helpful to you, don't respond. Don't pull obviously unproven statistics out of nowhere to...not even proving the point.
But it's definitely relevant - people were advising you to apply to Cambridge because they think people with poor GCSEs but great a-levels should avoid Oxford. It's a myth.
Original post by roarchika
Maybe because Cambridge require UMS to be declared, so it's almost as if they have another way of comparing their applicants before interview? Yeah, I've been told the LNAT has a very significant importance over who gets invited!
Which at most means that if you've got equally good GCSEs and a-levels, you can consider either; but if you've got poor GCSEs but good a-levels, you should try Oxford. (This is the opposite to what the myth suggests.)
Original post by Hydeman
Have you spoken to the admissions office about this? While I'd normally say apply anyway, medicine, because of how competitive it is, is the great exception to a lot of advice about Oxford. With medicine, they're quite clear how they shortlist for interview and number of A*s does play a huge role in that:
http://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/medicine/pre-clinical/statistics
http://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/medicine/pre-clinical/statistics
No, I'm not going to apply to Oxford and Cambridge.
I meant other unis. Getting in for medicine at oxbridge is extremely difficult!! Someone from my sixth form got in last year to study medicine at Cambridge.
Original post by Little Toy Gun
And did an admission tutor from the same discipline at Cambridge tell you that you can definitely get in with fewer than 4 A*s even in a top performing school?
What you said proved nothing when this is about comparing the two universities.
What you said proved nothing when this is about comparing the two universities.
Yes, Cambridge ATs have repeatedly said A*s at GCSE are not important, except for Medicine and Law. The debate is not about Cambridge's view of GCSEs, it's about Oxford's.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by jneill
Yes, Cambridge ATs have repeatedly said A*s at GCSE are not important, except for Medicine and Law. The debate is not about Cambridge's view of GCSEs, it's about Oxford's.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
It certainly is if you're comparing the two.
If the advice was 'don't apply to Oxford if you've got bad GCSEs' - fine.
But the advice is 'apply to Cambridge if you've got bad GCSEs but good a-levels'.
Why is it so difficult to understand that to compare the two universities, you need data from both?
You can't say Oxford having successful candidates with 3A*s or more meaning they only consider people with good GCSEs regardless of their a-levels. Chances are that Cambridge most definitely will have most successful candidates with 3A*s or more.
Throw in the fact that Oxford specifically said that they look at the improvement post-GCSE but not 'we judge you base only on your GCSE and nothing else', it's quite clear that this is a myth and the advice has been given with no support.
Original post by Little Toy Gun
I tried googling your 'fact' and could find nothing.
Earlier I was told it's 3A*s, and now in a course of a few days it's changed to 8A*s? What a progression.
Earlier I was told it's 3A*s, and now in a course of a few days it's changed to 8A*s? What a progression.
You don't seem to actually be helping anyone, just nitpicking, what's your goal?
I got 3 A*'s, 5 A's, 2 B's
Do you think that my results are good enough for Cambridge, I want to apply for Law.
Please be honest
Do you think that my results are good enough for Cambridge, I want to apply for Law.
Please be honest
Original post by SCalver
You don't seem to actually be helping anyone, just nitpicking, what's your goal?
I'm trying to tell people what the truth is, so they don't make their life choices based on advice that were given based on myths.
And I will keep trying to correct all incorrect information.
Perhaps can't say the same about you.
Original post by Little Toy Gun
I'm trying to tell people what the truth is, so they don't make their life choices based on advice that were given based on myths.
And I will keep trying to correct all incorrect information.
Perhaps can't say the same about you.
And I will keep trying to correct all incorrect information.
Perhaps can't say the same about you.
"Lesson: Don't take serious advice from TSR." "so they don't make their life choices based on advice that were given based on myths" good one
"Chances are that Cambridge most definitely will have most successful candidates with 3A*s or more." Citation needed
"Throw in the fact that Oxford specifically said that they look at the improvement post-GCSE but not 'we judge you base only on your GCSE and nothing else', it's quite clear that this is a myth and the advice has been given with no support." Citation needed
"And Oxford says they take into account of the improvement so there's no reason to assert that people with poor GCSEs but great a-levels should avoid Oxford." Citation needed
"It's a myth that you should apply to Cambridge instead if you've got bad GCSEs. What Oxford does say is that they look at your progression from GCSEs to more recent qualifications." Citation needed
"I tried googling your 'fact' and could find nothing." /facepalm
Original post by SCalver
"Chances are that Cambridge most definitely will have most successful candidates with 3A*s or more." Citation needed
The burden of proof is on the people asserting that they should avoid Oxford.
Original post by SCalver
"Throw in the fact that Oxford specifically said that they look at the improvement post-GCSE but not 'we judge you base only on your GCSE and nothing else', it's quite clear that this is a myth and the advice has been given with no support." Citation needed
Original post by SCalver
"And Oxford says they take into account of the improvement so there's no reason to assert that people with poor GCSEs but great a-levels should avoid Oxford." Citation needed
Original post by SCalver
"It's a myth that you should apply to Cambridge instead if you've got bad GCSEs. What Oxford does say is that they look at your progression from GCSEs to more recent qualifications." Citation needed
'...Tutors will also consider your achieved or predicted grades at A-level (or other equivalent qualifications)...Tutors will want to see how you improve your academic performance after your GCSEs and that you do well in your A-levels or other equivalent qualifications.'
http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/entrance-requirements
Original post by SCalver
"I tried googling your 'fact' and could find nothing." /facepalm
Do you /facepalm when your markers ask you to reference when claiming a fact?
---
Now, the question is: Are you helping anyone by making the myth look like a truth?
(edited 8 years ago)
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