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    (Original post by Illiberal Liberal)
    There have been at least 2 threads about this in the past few days.

    It's because someone said that they found same-sex people kissing 'gross', so many people changed their avatars accordingly to take a (albeit virtual and arguably ineffective) stand against the implicit homophobia.

    I'll be joining the cause at some point. Anything to piss off bigots.
    Got it. I'm online only now and then, so I miss most of the latest chat
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    (Original post by Illiberal Liberal)
    Feminism is a more effective and accurate label for supporting the equality of the sexes (against the backdrop of this not yet being manifested in society).
    But I don't see how feminism can be a useful umbrella tool to address some issues which men and minorities face. So why not use egalitarianism, which does not rely on any dubious theories of power structures, to address every issue of inequality? The results would probably be the same, yet the steps taken would be far easier to reach such an outcome.
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    (Original post by harinimnida)
    You're not a feminist, you're an Egalitarian~!
    Feminism is a subset of egalitarianism. The two do not clash. Egalitarianism is the umbrella term.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism
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    (Original post by Illiberal Liberal)
    And egalitarianism is too nebulous and vague a concept - feminism is a more effective and accurate label for supporting the equality of the sexes (against the backdrop of this not yet being manifested in society).
    Supporting the equality of the sexes by focusing solely on the problems of one. Yes, very effective.

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    (Original post by iAre Teh Lejend)
    What do you mean by the latter ?
    Firstly,I am not really fan of the term 'Egalitarian' because many times it's used as a replacement word to feminism-but not feminism, if you see where I am coming from.

    Secondly it was all your 'expecting'. Women don't naturally expect a man to take care of the finances, men taking care of the finances its one of the many attributes that has created the male gender role overtime, feminism doesn't always want to turn them on their head completely, but feminism shows us that these aren't roles 'applied' to us and we shouldn't have to follow them if we don't want to. So it's not right for a woman to 'expect' for a man to take care of the finances and it's insulting for you to say you wouldn't expect your partner to take care of the finances, why not?

    With the new born baby thing, women can breast feed and maybe do feel more connected to the baby since it's grown inside them for so long but once it's in the world men have just as much chance to bond and nurse the baby as the woman does, but it's insulting for you to say you don't think women should 'expect' men to be on par with their roles when nursing the baby and it's insulting to the fathers who want to be hands on with their babies. Many men feel left out after a baby is born because they don't feel they can bon with their child like a mother can, I disagree with that.

    Just because your saying you believe in equality doesn't mean much if you still hold on to traditional gender roles in my opinion, we have moved on from that (or at least we are trying too).
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    Depends what you mean by feminist really.
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    (Original post by iAre Teh Lejend)
    I support the campaign for equal rights for both sexes. Men and women should be respected equally, and both given the opportunities they deserve. Women should be paid equally as well as men under the same vocation. Women should not be objectified. Women deserve the rights to voice their opinions.

    The list goes on:
    Co-educative schools, same content of classes for girls and boys, same qualification for men and women is important.

    For women, career is just as important as for men; equal professional opportunities for men and women are important.

    Neither partner should dominate; solutions do not always follow the principle of finding a concerted decision; status quo is maintained if disagreement occurs.

    However, men and women are different in many ways aside from the obvious, and women and men have gender roles that they should appreciate. Radical feminism completely trashes the thought of gender roles.

    For example you can't expect a man to be as able as woman when it comes to caring for a newborn? I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm saying it's stupid to campaign for childcare of newborns to be of equal responsibility for both parents. Women are biologically and psychologically more able in these circumstances. But if the partners decide among themselves to share the responsibilities, then so be it, but it isn't something that should be expected from the outset or campaigned about. Similarly with housework. Most men want their partner to take care of the majority of housework, does it mean these men are against equal rights? Of course not! If the man is happy to help equally, then so be it, if the women wants the man to help equally, this should be understood from the outset.

    Likewise with Men. Most women expect the male to be the main support for the family in terms of finance. I think this is perfectly normal for women to think this. But this doesn't mean the men should disagree with females wanting to be independent, and frown upon them wanting to work for themselves, because that is wrong.

    What I'm trying to say is, there are gender roles that must be appreciated, that shouldn't interfere with what equality is. Radical feminists do not appreciate gender roles whatsoever. As a Male, I would not expect my partner to want me to offer full nursing care for a newborn, I wouldn't know where to start, but if she wants me to help, I'll try. And, I wouldn't expect my partner to take care of finances either, but if she wants to contribute, that's fine by me !

    TL;DR - Equality is important. Male supremacy should be eradicated and likewise with radical feminism
    Agree to an extent. Specifically who defines gender roles and what about those that exist outside of them. To me gender roles exist within relationships, I.e a man saying I want to be the main bread winner and a women saying I want to do the house work. I don't think society should make the decision of gender roles simply because it's unfair on those that want to exist differently (including same sex relationships).

    I know perfectly healthy and happy relationships in which the traditional roles are reversed, in fact the happiest couple I know is a M/s relationship where the female is in control. They completely contradict traditional gender roles.
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    (Original post by harinimnida)
    Feminism has become a toxic movement of internet censorship and #killallmen being seen by other feminists as acceptable. Women who feel they are higher than men and think less of men in a movement which is supposed to stop sexism without realising the feminist movement is sexist towards men. Men are still the largest combat deaths, and likely to lose custody of their children as court will favour the mother, along with women getting more lenient sentences for committing the same crime as a man.

    Not only this, third wave feminism focuses on how being catcalled is sexual assault in their eyes. There are girls in some countries killed for getting an education, still being sold off, yet modern western feminism is doing nothing to provide equal rights for the women who need it.

    Egalitarianism not feminism!
    You sound like a nut, you probably only focus on radical feminism and form all your opinions on what you see on social media.
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    (Original post by harinimnida)
    You're not a feminist, you're an Egalitarian~!
    Ill take "idiot" for 10 points
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    (Original post by harinimnida)
    Feminism has become a toxic movement of internet censorship and #killallmen being seen by other feminists as acceptable. Women who feel they are higher than men and think less of men in a movement which is supposed to stop sexism without realising the feminist movement is sexist towards men. Men are still the largest combat deaths, and likely to lose custody of their children as court will favour the mother, along with women getting more lenient sentences for committing the same crime as a man.

    Not only this, third wave feminism focuses on how being catcalled is sexual assault in their eyes. There are girls in some countries killed for getting an education, still being sold off, yet modern western feminism is doing nothing to provide equal rights for the women who need it.

    Egalitarianism not feminism!
    No just no. You are talking about radical feminism, it's not uncommon to have radicals anywhere in any group/belief system but it is unintelligent to actually use them as and example to form reasons against a group/belief system.
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    When the lads and lasses dont understand feminism

    egalitarian=feminism
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    (Original post by harinimnida)
    Western feminism isn't needed.
    Ignorant statement of the day.
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    (Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
    When the lads and lasses dont understand feminism

    egalitarian=feminism
    Meh...not always.
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    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    Firstly,I am not really fan of the term 'Egalitarian' because many times it's used as a replacement word to feminism-but not feminism, if you see where I am coming from.

    Secondly it was all your 'expecting'. Women don't naturally expect a man to take care of the finances, men taking care of the finances its one of the many attributes that has created the male gender role overtime, feminism doesn't always want to turn them on their head completely, but feminism shows us that these aren't roles 'applied' to us and we shouldn't have to follow them if we don't want to. So it's not right for a woman to 'expect' for a man to take care of the finances and it's insulting for you to say you wouldn't expect your partner to take care of the finances, why not?

    With the new born baby thing, women can breast feed and maybe do feel more connected to the baby since it's grown inside them for so long but once it's in the world men have just as much chance to bond and nurse the baby as the woman does, but it's insulting for you to say you don't think women should 'expect' men to be on par with their roles when nursing the baby and it's insulting to the fathers who want to be hands on with their babies. Many men feel left out after a baby is born because they don't feel they can bon with their child like a mother can, I disagree with that.

    Just because your saying you believe in equality doesn't mean much if you still hold on to traditional gender roles in my opinion, we have moved on from that (or at least we are trying too).
    Hit the nail on the head there.

    OP, believing gender roles are restrictive and even damaging when one thinks that's the only way the genders should behave isn't radical feminism; it's MAINSTREAM feminism, and rightly so. Noone should 'appreciate' a mentality where they feel they should do x just because they have a vagina, and the opposite gender does y for the same reason. Not only is there no truth to men and women being objectively better at child rearing or bringing home the bacon, one's use of 'should' here is conditional; meaning in their opinion gender roles are beneficial and everyone should obey them. This means their morality and beliefs bleed into their statements, and they become a lot more subjective. In other words no real discussion can be had on the topic of gender roles since some will say 'I think they're cool' and others will say 'I think they're harmful' with no evidence if it just boils down to opinion.

    Where I think feminism wins here is the message being one of CHOICE. There should be no framework by which a gender should act, but if some of their choices coincide with said framework, so be it as long as the societal narrative isn't one which pushes or indeed forces them into such actions.
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    I see the shield barriers have been breached by Tumblr's lasers
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    That moment when you took the Blue Pill
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    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    Meh...not always.
    always, or its not feminism
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    (Original post by ubisoft)
    All OP did is state his opinions as facts without giving any reasons and examples. You expect everyone to take what you say as correct without any proof/sources?
    One does not simply provide proof or sources for a topic that is purely based on opinion.
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    (Original post by DIN-NARYU-FARORE)
    always, or its not feminism
    No, I have seen countless times people call them a Egalitarian but not a feminist.
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    (Original post by Danz123)
    Hit the nail on the head there.

    OP, believing gender roles are restrictive and even damaging when one thinks that's the only way the genders should behave isn't radical feminism; it's MAINSTREAM feminism, and rightly so. Noone should 'appreciate' a mentality where they feel they should do x just because they have a vagina, and the opposite gender does y for the same reason. Not only is there no truth to men and women being objectively better at child rearing or bringing home the bacon, one's use of 'should' here is conditional; meaning in their opinion gender roles are beneficial and everyone should obey them. This means their morality and beliefs bleed into their statements, and they become a lot more subjective. In other words no real discussion can be had on the topic of gender roles since some will say 'I think they're cool' and others will say 'I think they're harmful' with no evidence if it just boils down to opinion.

    Where I think feminism wins here is the message being one of CHOICE. There should be no framework by which a gender should act, but if some of their choices coincide with said framework, so be it as long as the societal narrative isn't one which pushes or indeed forces them into such actions.
    You explain better than I do! Very good!
 
 
 
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