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Student Protest, Your thoughts watch

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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    So what exactly are you saying?

    Student loans are bad because it means people won't start on a pension?

    https://www.gov.uk/workplace-pensions
    Absolutely. If you think putting aside 2% of your salary is going to land you a prosperous retirement at 50 on the Costa del Sol, you can think again. The statistic I heard is that if you want to retire on a 2/3 salary when you retire, you need to save the percentage of your salary that is half your age when you start saving. So if you start your pension at 30 years old, you need to be putting 15% of your gross salary away for retirement.

    However, this assumes you will have somewhere to live at retirement that doesn't require mortgage or rent payments.

    With the excessive cost of accommodation, living costs, job prospects, and the weight of unfathomable debt, the young folks of today have an extraordinarily crap deal out of the equation. Some will be ok, but many will struggle. So yes, student loan repayments are bad, certainly at a time of life when you basically need the most amount of money.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Absolutely. If you think putting aside 2% of your salary is going to land you a prosperous retirement at 50 on the Costa del Sol, you can think again. The statistic I heard is that if you want to retire on a 2/3 salary when you retire, you need to save the percentage of your salary that is half your age when you start saving. So if you start your pension at 30 years old, you need to be putting 15% of your gross salary away for retirement.

    However, this assumes you will have somewhere to live at retirement that doesn't require mortgage or rent payments.

    With the excessive cost of accommodation, living costs, job prospects, and the weight of unfathomable debt, the young folks of today have an extraordinarily crap deal out of the equation. Some will be ok, but many will struggle. So yes, student loan repayments are bad, certainly at a time of life when you basically need the most amount of money.
    Don't forget to plan for some new costs too like more dentist or healthcare or education charges.

    Every generation something is taken


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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Absolutely. If you think putting aside 2% of your salary is going to land you a prosperous retirement at 50 on the Costa del Sol, you can think again. The statistic I heard is that if you want to retire on a 2/3 salary when you retire, you need to save the percentage of your salary that is half your age when you start saving. So if you start your pension at 30 years old, you need to be putting 15% of your gross salary away for retirement.

    However, this assumes you will have somewhere to live at retirement that doesn't require mortgage or rent payments.

    With the excessive cost of accommodation, living costs, job prospects, and the weight of unfathomable debt, the young folks of today have an extraordinarily crap deal out of the equation. Some will be ok, but many will struggle. So yes, student loan repayments are bad, certainly at a time of life when you basically need the most amount of money.
    2% is a minimum, but actually 4% with employer contributions. Something that wasn't legally required when I started out working. I lost ten years in a pension because I wasn't forced to do it.

    As for mortgages after retirement. Sorry, but if people can't plan to be mortgage free by the time their 67 then there's something seriously wrong with their planning.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Don't forget to plan for some new costs too like more dentist or healthcare or education charges.

    Every generation something is taken


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    That's because every generation refuses to pay for it and kicks the problem onto other generations.

    However as some things are taken away, others are given.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    2% is a minimum, but actually 4% with employer contributions. Something that wasn't legally required when I started out working. I lost ten years in a pension because I wasn't forced to do it.
    You aren't forced to pay into a pension. You are automatically enrolled but can opt out. Currently 2% true rising to 3% employer contributions, but only for larger companies and still woefully inadequate compared to what is required.

    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    As for mortgages after retirement. Sorry, but if people can't plan to be mortgage free by the time their 67 then there's something seriously wrong with their planning.
    What planet are you on? Average house price across the country is now over £200k. In London it is getting on for half a million! Are you really suggesting that the average grad on top of student loan / debt repayments, pension, housing and living has spare cash to raise a deposit? What planet are you on?
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    You aren't forced to pay into a pension. You are automatically enrolled but can opt out. Currently 2% true rising to 3% employer contributions, but only for larger companies and still woefully inadequate compared to what is required.



    What planet are you on? Average house price across the country is now over £200k. In London it is getting on for half a million! Are you really suggesting that the average grad on top of student loan / debt repayments, pension, housing and living has spare cash to raise a deposit? What planet are you on?
    Opting out is less likely to happen if it's automatic enrolment and all employers have to set pension schemes up.

    £200k isn't that much when you're looking at a normal family unit of 2.4 kids etc. I've managed to clear my mortgage in my thirties, but that was by renting it out and overpaying. But expecting a couple to pay off £200k over 30 years isn't that hard.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)



    What planet are you on? Average house price across the country is now over £200k. In London it is getting on for half a million! Are you really suggesting that the average grad on top of student loan / debt repayments, pension, housing and living has spare cash to raise a deposit? What planet are you on?
    Planet Tory.
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    self-centred
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    But expecting a couple to pay off £200k over 30 years isn't that hard.
    I am that couple. And our mortgage is for about £200k. I am at the top of my profession and my wife is in that awkward place where she can either work and not see our kids (who would have to be in childcare) or work for peanuts and barely afford to pay for the little childcare we need. So we are pretty skint. And we are lucky - we can just afford to do it. If we lived in London or the south we wouldn't stand a chance.

    We are moving into a rather depressing future where most of use will still be working into our 70's whilst others have to work until they die... a bit like in Dickensian times. But hey ho - I believe the Tories call that progress.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    I am that couple. And our mortgage is for about £200k. I am at the top of my profession and my wife is in that awkward place where she can either work and not see our kids (who would have to be in childcare) or work for peanuts and barely afford to pay for the little childcare we need. So we are pretty skint. And we are lucky - we can just afford to do it. If we lived in London or the south we wouldn't stand a chance.

    We are moving into a rather depressing future where most of use will still be working into our 70's whilst others have to work until they die... a bit like in Dickensian times. But hey ho - I believe the Tories call that progress.
    Would you prefer the labour option? Borrow money and get your kids to pay it off?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Would you prefer the labour option? Borrow money and get your kids to pay it off?
    I prefer the option where houses are half the price of what they are today so that money can be diverted elsewhere in the family budget.

    I also prefer the way where we leave the eu and can control migrant numbers and quality so we don't suppress wage growth.

    And lastly I prefer the way where western nations make a deal with China and India to set international tax rates.

    And those are in order of easiest to do


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    (Original post by paul514)
    I prefer the option where houses are half the price of what they are today so that money can be diverted elsewhere in the family budget.

    I also prefer the way where we leave the eu and can control migrant numbers and quality so we don't suppress wage growth.

    And lastly I prefer the way where western nations make a deal with China and India to set international tax rates.

    And those are in order of easiest to do


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    So, as I've worked hard to pay off my mortgage I loose £75k?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    So, as I've worked hard to pay off my mortgage I loose £75k?
    Lose* and in real terms yes.

    In cash terms no.


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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Would you prefer the labour option? Borrow money and get your kids to pay it off?
    Why not? That's what many parents do in order to help their kids buy their first house.

    The current Tory option is to pretend that everyone is borrowing money to pay for their own education. However, because so many are earning less than the threshold and much of the debt will eventually be written off, it is actually costing the tax payer more than the old system.

    A bit like the railways and soon to be the hospitals.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Why not? That's what many parents do in order to help their kids buy their first house.

    The current Tory option is to pretend that everyone is borrowing money to pay for their own education. However, because so many are earning less than the threshold and much of the debt will eventually be written off, it is actually costing the tax payer more than the old system.

    A bit like the railways and soon to be the hospitals.
    So you're arguing that the taxpayer should pay the bill and then complaining that the taxpayer foots the bill.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    So you're arguing that the taxpayer should pay the bill and then complaining that the taxpayer foots the bill.
    No. I am arguing that the current system is both more expensive than the previous one, worse value for money and unfair to most of those who have to use. I also don't believe it encourages social mobility. In other words - it is a pile of shash!
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    No. I am arguing that the current system is both more expensive than the previous one, worse value for money and unfair to most of those who have to use. I also don't believe it encourages social mobility. In other words - it is a pile of shash!
    I think it's actually quite good. It's opened up access to higher education for those from poorer backgrounds.

    The SNPs policy of free higher education has failed.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    I think it's actually quite good. It's opened up access to higher education for those from poorer backgrounds.

    The SNPs policy of free higher education has failed.
    That's a bizarre thing to say. We now have young people wondering if university is right for them because they don't want to be saddled with unimaginable debt but a policy that offers free education up front is a failure?? You are going to have to elaborate a bit more than that.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    That's a bizarre thing to say. We now have young people wondering if university is right for them because they don't want to be saddled with unimaginable debt but a policy that offers free education up front is a failure?? You are going to have to elaborate a bit more than that.
    Young people wondering about going to university is a good thing. One of the many numerous mistakes labour made was pushing people into university rather than colleges and apprenticeships.

    At the moment we have a situation where the playing field is levelled between rich and poor (sorry, but the fact is that uptake of degrees is higher in England than Scotland, that's a fact)
    We're now in a position that those who can payback their debts, do. Those that can't may get it written off. The other proposal is pay everybody's fees which means that the taxpayer is footing the whole cost.

    What are you actually advocating?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Young people wondering about going to university is a good thing. One of the many numerous mistakes labour made was pushing people into university rather than colleges and apprenticeships.

    At the moment we have a situation where the playing field is levelled between rich and poor (sorry, but the fact is that uptake of degrees is higher in England than Scotland, that's a fact)
    We're now in a position that those who can payback their debts, do. Those that can't may get it written off. The other proposal is pay everybody's fees which means that the taxpayer is footing the whole cost.
    A fair point well made. Agreed. But I don't think the playing field is levelled between rich and poor. It levels between the poor and middle. The rich can pay upfront and avoid interest costs. In other words - higher education is cheaper if you are rich which is not progressive.

    My wife graduated in 2002 with £10k of debt. 13 years later, her debt currently stands at around £10k. In that time she has paid well over half of the capital amount back but still owes the same amount owing to interest. Due to maternity and childcare, she now earns below the threshold so the amount she owes is steadily rising. It is a debt. It hangs over us.

    That is what I don't like about the current system. Call it a tax and tax everyone who benefits from higher education - fine. But the current system is not fair across the board.
 
 
 
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