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So who is taking Chelsea's top 4 spot? watch

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  • View Poll Results: Top four?
    Spurs
    30.00%
    Liverpool
    30.00%
    Leicester
    18.33%
    West Ham
    2.50%
    Other
    1.67%
    Chelsea will still make it
    17.50%

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    (Original post by sr90)
    Fatigue isn't really a benefit when we're suffering from it too. Have you seen how knackered and stretched our squad is already, seeing how we have a few injuries and LVG sold all the squad players/loaned out all the kids?



    Completely forgot you had Inler and Nathan Dyer
    Agreed, but the tempo at which Leicester play, along with the fact that the players aren't experienced enough to understand how to maintain such consistency over 90 mins against a defensively sound unit like United, will end up being Leicester's downfall. If Leicester score first however, it will be a long day for United.
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    Mahrez is magic and I'd love to see Leicester finish there.

    But realistically it's going to be Liverpool or Chelsea
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    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    However, I still don't think the squad will last the season, from my experience of watching the league that is. I don't think the way the team has been playing is sustainable over a whole season, especially if you go far in the domestic cups which will only add to fatigue. The style of play is so attack minded (which I love watching) but will soon take it's toll on players like Vardy who don't have the experience of playing in many games over the season at such a high consistency. Also, it won't always work against teams with better attackers (and defenders). You only have to look as far as the Arsenal game to see how easily and efficiently Leicester were counter attacked and grew quickly tired over the course of the 90 mins.

    It's only an opinion and I could be as wrong as the next man, hell you could win the league for I care, I have no problem against Leicester at all.
    :laugh: Sorry, you do realise most of these players came from the football league and in Vardys case non-league, facing more games, with worse pitches, in quick succession right?

    Anyway, for what it's worth, since 1995 when the league shifted to 20 teams, 40 have had 25 points or more after 12 games. 32 have gone on to qualify for the champions league, 6 for the europa league and only 2 (Wigan and Aston Villa) have missed out, Villa only because of the cups being won by those in the bottom half so 6th not meriting a european place. To miss out on Europe from here is practically unheard of, and 80% of the time it goes on to be a champions league place.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    :laugh: Sorry, you do realise most of these players came from the football league and in Vardys case non-league, facing more games, with worse pitches, in quick succession right?

    Anyway, for what it's worth, since 1995 when the league shifted to 20 teams, 40 have had 25 points or more after 12 games. 32 have gone on to qualify for the champions league, 6 for the europa league and only 2 (Wigan and Aston Villa) have missed out, Villa only because of the cups being won by those in the bottom half so 6th not meriting a european place. To miss out on Europe from here is practically unheard of, and 80% of the time it goes on to be a champions league place.
    Not sure if you watched the premier league last season but S'oton would have missed out had it not been for Arsenal winning the FA Cup.

    As you said it is non-league football, not premier league. I hope you understand that saying there is a MASSIVE difference in quality would be an understatement.

    Stats and records are there to be broken. If you genuinely think Leicester will go on to get 4th then I think you've only just started watching football. Getting into Europa wouldn't surprise me too much, but CL? Come on.
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    The problem with Leicester is that defensively they're very poor, which means that they have to outscore teams. They've scored 25 goals this season, with 19 coming from Vardy/Mahrez. Supposing one or both gets injured/loses form it could be very problematic for them. Especially when you consider that they have weak replacements in Okazaki who's scored just one goal since joining and Ulloa who went several months last season without scoring. This is fixable though, as King Power have supported Leicester well over the past few transfer windows, so defenders can be bought in January.They have a good manager in Ranieri who historically has set his sides up very well defensively too, which makes it all the more bewildering about Leicester shipping so many. If things go on as they are however, I wouldn't back them for Europe.

    Liverpool have a good manager in Klopp, but conversely they struggle to score goals. This is particularly bad, as Sturridge is injured indefinitely and with the exception of Coutinho, nobody in the midfield is that prolific. Benteke also wouldn't fit into a high press either. Unless they get someone very good in January or someone in midfield starts scoring goals, I wouldn't back them for the CL.

    70 points would be needed at least to get 4th which rules Chelsea out. They'd need 18 wins and a handful of draws to get there. Unless there is a dramatic change in form it rules them out.

    I think it will be be between West Ham and Spurs for 4th.

    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    :laugh: Sorry, you do realise most of these players came from the football league and in Vardys case non-league, facing more games, with worse pitches, in quick succession right?
    Just because players come from lower leagues it doesn't mean they will be fit. As a Leicester fan, you must be aware that the main reason Paulo Sousa got sacked was because the players weren't fit enough, many of whom had several seasons playing lower league footy.

    Anyway, for what it's worth, since 1995 when the league shifted to 20 teams, 40 have had 25 points or more after 12 games. 32 have gone on to qualify for the champions league, 6 for the europa league and only 2 (Wigan and Aston Villa) have missed out, Villa only because of the cups being won by those in the bottom half so 6th not meriting a european place. To miss out on Europe from here is practically unheard of, and 80% of the time it goes on to be a champions league place.
    After 13 games last season, Southampton were 3rd. They were four points clear of Man Utd who were 4th and six clear of Arsenal who eventually did come 3rd. They ended up 7th. It wasn't just league positioning they were better than Leicester; they were defensively very well organised, so could grind out 1-0's. As opposed to Leicester, they had a few players chipping in with goals as opposed to just Mane and Pelle.
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    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    Not sure if you watched the premier league last season but S'oton would have missed out had it not been for Arsenal winning the FA Cup.

    As you said it is non-league football, not premier league. I hope you understand that saying there is a MASSIVE difference in quality would be an understatement.

    Stats and records are there to be broken. If you genuinely think Leicester will go on to get 4th then I think you've only just started watching football. Getting into Europa wouldn't surprise me too much, but CL? Come on.
    The quality of the division isn't the question though, the tempo and intensity is, and frankly it'd be a bit ignorant to suggest the lower leagues didn't have the intensity of the premier league, if anything they're a bit faster. I'd worry more for foreign imports playing in slower leagues and ones that get a winter break wrt fatigue.

    I've been watching since MON, and I see absolutely no reason why we can't go on to finish top 4 - we're fitter than the rest of the division and we know exactly what we're doing - all this talk of falling away surely has to end after half a season of top four form, bridged across two managers.


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    (Original post by Diego Costa)

    Just because players come from lower leagues it doesn't mean they will be fit. As a Leicester fan, you must be aware that the main reason Paulo Sousa got sacked was because the players weren't fit enough, many of whom had several seasons playing lower league footy.
    The issue there was sousas training methods and the main reason he was sacked was dreadful results, which came from sheer tactical naivety on his part, trying to get the classic brick ****house number 9s like Steve Howard to play tiki-taka. But beyond that we already know these players are ridiculously fit, and the idea that somehow the winter spell where games come thick and fast will be a shock to them is absurd.

    After 13 games last season, Southampton were 3rd. They were four points clear of Man Utd who were 4th and six clear of Arsenal who eventually did come 3rd. They ended up 7th. It wasn't just league positioning they were better than Leicester; they were defensively very well organised, so could grind out 1-0's. As opposed to Leicester, they had a few players chipping in with goals as opposed to just Mane and Pelle.
    and for every southampton who've fell away into the Europa league or missed out completely, four sides have gone on to stay in the top four. Frankly, I like those odds.


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    I wouldn't rule out United from making it, if they can start scoring goals, they might be another of the surprise mid ranking teams this year.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    The issue there was sousas training methods and the main reason he was sacked was dreadful results, which came from sheer tactical naivety on his part, trying to get the classic brick ****house number 9s like Steve Howard to play tiki-taka. But beyond that we already know these players are ridiculously fit, and the idea that somehow the winter spell where games come thick and fast will be a shock to them is absurd.
    Sousa misunderstood the physical aspect and focussed the training on passing, which meant a lot of the squad were unfit.

    Fitness could be a factor for Leicester given how important work rate is to their overall game.

    and for every southampton who've fell away into the Europa league or missed out completely, four sides have gone on to stay in the top four. Frankly, I like those odds.
    But the problem is that the stats you used were skewed by outdated results. 10 years ago, you could get into the CL with 60 points, which is why 25+ a third of the way through the season would guarantee European football. Nowadays, you need at least 70. I'm not saying you DEFINITELY won't, but it's unlikely unless Ranieri/the director of football/the transfer committee or whoever signs players at Leicester gets cover in January.
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    As if people are writing off Leicester but reckon West Ham can sustain it.

    The latter are massively dependent on Payet and co, and while they've started well, I think Leicester have shown more character in consistently rebounding from conceding the first goal to win time and time again.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    Sousa misunderstood the physical aspect and focussed the training on passing, which meant a lot of the squad were unfit.

    Fitness could be a factor for Leicester given how important work rate is to their overall game.
    While Sousa under-estimated the need for conditioning, his biggest mistake by far was trying to revolutionise from the team of Pearsons first stint, technically limited tackle and hoof centre halves with a traditional big man little man combo up top, into a passing side with no easing into it. But, beyond that, only two members of the playing and coaching staff remain from those days - Andy King and the goalkeeping coach Stowell; and the current set up has excellent fitness training, demonstrated with the ease with which we keep coming back from deficits and keep going right to the final whistle. People writing us off using fatigue are just demonstrating they haven't watched us beyond MOTD.
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    As if people are writing off Leicester but reckon West Ham can sustain it.

    .
    I've wondered what the logic is behind some people's reasoning of this as well.
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    (Original post by IamJacksContempt)
    I've wondered what the logic is behind some people's reasoning of this as well.
    Really weird. Ranieri is actually more experienced than Bilic, and West Ham's home form has been inferior to Leicester's. Neither will finish top five.
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    Not Liverpool after today's game.


    I hope Tottenham get it.
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    ****e from us today.
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    ****e from us today.
    Don't think we were that bad tbh, just didn't take our chances and gave away cheap goals which has been an on going problem that won't go away overnight.
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    West Ham won't do it this season but they will be a Champions League team by 2020

    A fairly inexpensive club to purchase, who happens to own a 60k stadium dead in the centre of London? They'll be a foreign investors wet dream
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    Spurs or Liverpool. Everton will be 5th or 6th.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    While Sousa under-estimated the need for conditioning, his biggest mistake by far was trying to revolutionise from the team of Pearsons first stint, technically limited tackle and hoof centre halves with a traditional big man little man combo up top, into a passing side with no easing into it. But, beyond that, only two members of the playing and coaching staff remain from those days - Andy King and the goalkeeping coach Stowell; and the current set up has excellent fitness training, demonstrated with the ease with which we keep coming back from deficits and keep going right to the final whistle. People writing us off using fatigue are just demonstrating they haven't watched us beyond MOTD.
    My overall point is that conditioning is still a factor in the league, which is something you dismissed citing the fact that many players in the squad had played lower league previously.

    My main worry isn't with your fitness, it's the very leaky defence (particularly as and the inability to grind out 1-0's. However, with a strategy built on work rate and a lack of attacking replacements, can you really deny that fatigue isn't a consideration.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    My overall point is that conditioning is still a factor in the league, which is something you dismissed citing the fact that many players in the squad had played lower league previously.

    My main worry isn't with your fitness, it's the very leaky defence (particularly as and the inability to grind out 1-0's. However, with a strategy built on work rate and a lack of attacking replacements, can you really deny that fatigue isn't a consideration.
    I dismissed the idea of intensity being an issue - They've played far more games in quick succession on worse surfaces in the past; the winter spell isn't going to be a surprise to more than inler, kante, Kramaric and benalouane as the only ones yet to experience a season without a winter break.

    I can definitely dismiss fatigue since the sports science and fitness set up here is excellent and we have actually got plenty of options in reserve for all but the goalkeeper, who generally is the least prone to fitness issues in a side.

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