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Should young people be paid minimum wage? watch

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  • View Poll Results: Should young people be paid minimum wage?
    No - only 21 year olds + should be entitled to full minimum wage.
    17
    9.88%
    Yes - People age 18+ should be entitled to full minimum wage.
    60
    34.88%
    Yes - People age 16+ should be entitled to full minimum wage.
    63
    36.63%
    Yes - Everyone including children should be entitled to full minimum wage.
    32
    18.60%

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    (Original post by Treeroy)
    But I do work full time. I'm struggling so much for money because I live in an expensive city and I do not earn minimum wage because the law is unjust and allows my employer to discriminate against me.
    The argument would be to move elsewhere and earn minimum wage in a cheap city?
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    (Original post by Treeroy)
    But I wouldn't be earning no wage at all. My work has hired plenty of over 21 year olds with no work experience. Why are you assuming you know every employer inside and out?
    I'm assuming no such thing. Again, reading comprehension, please. I'm talking in generalities. Overall, young people would be at a competitive disadvantage as against older people in the non-skilled labour market if they didn't have the extra bargaining chip of being able to offer their service at a lower cost.

    I'm really not interested in what you're earning. I've never said that no younger people would be hired under the system you suggest, or even come close to saying that.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Perhaps you would. Still, if you only needed one worker, and there were two candidates with a substantial age gap between them, if you were a prudent business owner you'd hire the older one most of the time, because, absent any price advantage for the younger one, they'd usually be the better candidate.
    Mate you realise that is illegal right?
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    I think he is sensible enough to crawl up the arses of employers when necessary. We do not, however, yet need to fear committing thought crime against them, this not being North Korea
    I agree. It is certainly not criminal to think ill of anyone, however incoherent your thoughts are.

    I'm not sure what you're driving at, though.
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    I believe its only fair. Am sure age has nothing to do with the ability of your work ethic. If you are good and dedicated at what you do, you shouldnt be paid less. Thats just me anyway.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Perhaps you would. Still, if you only needed one worker, and there were two candidates with a substantial age gap between them, if you were a prudent business owner you'd hire the older one most of the time, because, absent any price advantage for the younger one, they'd usually be the better candidate.
    People do get old and die you know.

    I;d hire whoever I thought was more suited to the job/culture of my business, although 'my' may not be the best work if it was a cooperative. But there would be no question of paying someone less than living wage. I may pay the more experienced guy more than the living wage to entice him. I may even be poaching shop floor staff from other rival wage slave employers to my more generous offerings, i dunno.

    This has no bearing on my position at all.
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    (Original post by Treeroy)
    Mate you realise that is illegal right?
    Oh do live in the real world for a moment.

    Realistically, your age is a factor in itself when you are being considered for a position. The major point, though, is that older people as a group tend to have more experience than their younger competitors, as I've explained.
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    (Original post by Treeroy)
    Except that we DON'T have a welfare system available to young people because you are not entitled to 90% of benefits until you are 21 or older. The people who earn the least are the ones not entitled to benefits! It's nuts.


    And yes as I said I know plenty of adults who have jobs for disposable income. Mostly Wives who have high-earning husbands who get a job as something to have some more money. Like I know a middle age couple, one of them earns well over £150K and the other one stays at home. Recently she decided to get a job to give her something to do and have some extra money. She doesn't need the money, the job is PURELY to get disposable income. Should she only get paid £5 an hour cause she doesn't really need it?! What a stupid argument.


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    You are such a liar. My sister is 18 and on benefits, your argument is thus invalid.

    and that is such a stupid argument. My dad is on over £300K plus a year and my mum doesn't work at all, yet we are really struggling right now, the world is not cheap you imbecile, I am basing this of a majority of the population.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Young people required to be paid the same as older people would be at a severe disadvantage to those older people when competing against them for jobs. It has nothing whatever to do with how easy the job is to do or to learn.

    They don't , in general, have the same level of reliability - only yesterday there was a TV report on an experimental late starting of school for older pupils, as research shows they cannot cope with being at school at 9am. Employers like people to start on time and be effective from the off.

    They aren't generally used to the disciplines of the workplace. Getting rid of an unproductive employee is costly, so advocating the firing of those that don't work out does not address the problem; employers don't want the costs of constant or repeated recruitment.

    In order to incentivise employers to take them on, the cost to the employer has to be lower. If it weren't youth unemployment would be twice as bad as it is already.
    Another sensible and correct post. Quoting for emphasis.
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    (Original post by sw651)
    My dad is on over £300K plus a year and my mum doesn't work at all, yet we are really struggling right now
    lol this should be fun

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    (Original post by sw651)
    Posted from TSR Mobile

    You are such a liar. My sister is 18 and on benefits, your argument is thus invalid.

    and that is such a stupid argument. My dad is on over £300K plus a year and my mum doesn't work at all, yet we are really struggling right now, the world is not cheap you imbecile, I am basing this of a majority of the population.
    Is this meant to be satire? "My family earns £300,000 a year, we're really struggling and we need benefits" because its not funny.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Oh do live in the real world for a moment.

    Realistically, your age is a factor in itself when you are being considered for a position. The major point, though, is that older people as a group tend to have more experience than their younger competitors, as I've explained.


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    Isn't hiring just to fill a quota discrimination, just as illegal. You hire based on experience and skills, not because you need a young person
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    (Original post by Treeroy)
    But I do work full time. I'm struggling so much for money because I live in an expensive city and I do not earn minimum wage because the law is unjust and allows my employer to discriminate against me.
    In what sense does your employer evade paying the minimum wage?

    If earning full time minimum wage you would not be struggling. I lived in Southampton where I would say the breadline is about £8,500 all in inc council tax bills food public transport and rent at 500ppm and that excluding WTCs and LHA. That would give you £3k disposable per year ish

    If in London on full time min wage you must allow yourself to be pushed into a slum i.e. house share with others
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    So slave societies like the Romans and the Confederacy found. It can be argued both ways but it requires people who understand about universal basic income etc. We are still too thick for that
    Well the welfare state acts as a kind of basic income in a very inefficient and bureaucratic way. Undermining the welfare state is one fo the reasons right wingers like a UBI. I'm from the Bertrand Russell school of left wing UBI advocacy.

    http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html


    But we are currently stuck with a bunch of morons in power who have a kind of Victorian moralizing about the necessity to work taking away tax credits etc... If I want my JSA I have to go through the motions of looking for work for eternity rather than it being a bare minimum I get as a citizen of this country. Can I not just have £50 a week as a right as apposed to being harassed constantly and put to work digging holes with spoons to please a vindictive, stupid and short sighted society for my £50.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    lol this should be fun



    Posted from TSR Mobile

    What do you mean by that?
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    Minimum wage should be abolished.
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    (Original post by Treeroy)
    We are expected to pay Adult prices for virtually every paid-for service in the country and yet we earn less. In some cases, we actually pay more to live - as we are not entitled to most benefits or credits.

    Should under 21s be paid the same as over 21s?
    Up to the age of 16 your parent's have to support you from 16+ you can get a job (with training) and your own place some people are actually kicked out you can also get married although below the age of at last 21 thats not that smart. Some people also have kids to support at 16 so yes the minimum wage should be paid to people from 16+.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Well the welfare state acts as a kind of basic income in a very inefficient and bureaucratic way. Undermining the welfare state is one fo the reasons right wingers like a UBI. I'm from the Bertrand Russell school of left wing UBI advocacy.

    http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html


    But we are currently stuck with a bunch of morons in power who have a kind of Victorian moralizing about the necessity to work taking away tax credits etc...

    Posted from TSR Mobile

    They want to take away tax credits because they are costing the economy too much
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    (Original post by sw651)
    Posted from TSR Mobile

    Isn't hiring just to fill a quota discrimination, just as illegal. You hire based on experience and skills, not because you need a young person
    I'm not intimately familiar with the discrimination laws because it doesn't really affect me and the concept as a whole irritates me a little, but certainly hiring young people because they are young would be discrimination against older people: age is a protected characteristic under the Equalities Act, and these things work both ways.

    I don't know if anyone is suggesting a quota system for younger workers, though.
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    (Original post by sw651)
    Posted from TSR Mobile

    You are such a liar. My sister is 18 and on benefits, your argument is thus invalid.

    and that is such a stupid argument. My dad is on over £300K plus a year and my mum doesn't work at all, yet we are really struggling right now, the world is not cheap you imbecile, I am basing this of a majority of the population.
    and you have the nerve to say young people should be paid less??

    :eek3:
 
 
 
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