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Major Kurdish offensive in Sinjar begins - heavy fighting watch

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    Why waste time with all your probabilities and predictions? Once your heart is in the right place, there's only one final outcome for IS. They're going down. There is no other option. Bunch of complete ****heads. They'll all eventually be killed like the heartless, child raping scum they are.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    So we should reward people who tear down borders and try to redraw maps?
    If it's for the greater good, why not? I actually see them more as fighting for survival all along and being more effective at fighting ISIL than everybody else put together, if we're happy to let them carry the can of course there should be a 'reward'.
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    (Original post by Marco1)
    Why waste time with all your probabilities and predictions? Once your heart is in the right place, there's only one final outcome for IS. They're going down. There is no other option. Bunch of complete ****heads. They'll all eventually be killed like the heartless, child raping scum they are.
    Yeah, but by whom?
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    (Original post by The Rad Prince)
    The Palestinians have a claim to part of the land because there are Arabs living there who can trace their family back to this land. There are few Latin speaking Italians in Britain who can trace their lineage back to the Roman Empire and a similar thing applies to Danes in Britain. The Scottish, English and Welsh cultures have developed organically much like the Kurdish culture, there is no I.S. culture because I.S. rejects culture. The Turkish claim to land in the middle east is weak given how hard the Arabs fought to throw the Ottoman invaders out.
    You can't now quibble over how strong one's claim to the land is. I mean, who will be the arbitrator? What % would give a group of people greater rights than another person?

    This all said, if you want to go down the route of nobody having a claim to land, you will turn into one of these people who think land belongs to whoever can win wars which is pretty dangerous thinking.
    If a superior army overwhelms their enemies and then overwhelms the native population, then by rights, they are entitled to that land.

    When you fight as a nation, you fight collectively, you win collectively and you lose collectively.


    Having said that, the above is conditional on the fact that the victorious army must not oppress the people, and divert resources to their own native land but they should stay, integrate and assimilate with the local populace and work together to be prosperous.

    I object to the rather simplistic reasoning that just because a group of people were once attached to a particular piece of land, they should be entitled to it for all eternity.
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    (Original post by zhog)
    If it's for the greater good, why not? I actually see them more as fighting for survival all along and being more effective at fighting ISIL than everybody else put together, if we're happy to let them carry the can of course there should be a 'reward'.
    I understand your point but IS are also trying to tear down borders and redraw maps. Why are we fighting IS instead of rewarding them, as you have suggested we do?
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    I understand your point but IS are also trying to tear down borders and redraw maps. Why are we fighting IS instead of rewarding them, as you have suggested we do?
    Well, the idea of rewarding anyone with anything was not my suggestion and we may not even be in a position do to do so. If the Kurds feel like declaring themselves independent at some point what is anyone going to do about it, invade their patch and subdue them? Just let them try...
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    (Original post by zhog)
    Yeah, but by whom?
    Don't worry, there will be plenty who will be pushing to the front of the queue soon to have a go at those *****. It's always only been a matter of time. The tide is beginning to turn. It won't be one faction who kills them off. It will be a mixture of different groups man. Anyone who wants to join is welcome
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    Which is called as "Kurdish" forces in the link are Norther Iraqi Kurdish region forces named "Peshmerga", which is heavily supported by Turkey.
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    Looks like the Kurds have captured Sinjar.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/34806556
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    An update on the Kurdish offensive, friends.

    As RFowler has pointed out, Sinjar has now been cleared of ISIL forces. Kurdish high command estimates it will take perhaps another 5 to 7 days to sweep it and clear any IEDs or booby traps left behind.

    The Kurds have pushed south from Sinjar down to the town of Baaj where it is reported 15 ISIL terrorists and the ISIL Emir of Baaj were killed in fighting last night

    http://isis.liveuamap.com/en/2015/13...ir-of-baaj-was

    Peshmerga forces have also pushed east from Sinjar along Highway 47. After a short but fierce battle they captured a cement factory that was being used as an ISIL base. They have continued moving east along Highway 47 and captured a an important road junction that is the easternmost road that would allow any attacker to drive around Mount Sinjar to flank them. It's also important to keep pushing east towards Tal Afar, which is the final major town before Mosul

    http://isis.liveuamap.com/en/2015/13...ir-of-baaj-was

    About 70 kilometres west of Sinjar, across the Syrian border, a joint Kurdish-FSA offensive has taken Al-Hawl, the capture of which will consolidate their control of the Syrian-Iraqi border area

    http://isis.liveuamap.com/en/2015/13...s-take-control

    There are many reports of ISIL casualties and arrests. As usual, the women of Kurdistan have acquitted themselves admirably

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    (Original post by RFowler)
    Looks like the Kurds have captured Sinjar.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/34806556
    Excellent news. It has been a good 24 hours in the fight against the death cult. My Iraqi friends love whisky, so I'll have a small glass in their honour tonight.

    There's also a poetic irony in the video on the BBC website, seeing the Kurdish forces walking down Mount Sinjar into the town given Mount Sinjar is where ISIL forces had corralled and surrounded 50,000 Yezidis with the intention of slaughtering them, and that was how our intervention began.
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    Some additional information. ArtofProtest said on here in one of his comments expounding his theories about an ISIL counterattack, that the Kurds had attacked Sinjar from the West.

    When I pointed out that in fact the attack had come substantially from Mount Sinjar, and the Kurdish control of Mount Sinjar would make it extremely difficult for an ISIL counterattack, he claimed that this was impossible as they could not send vehicles over the mountain.

    Here is a map released by the US Department of Defence showing a map of the offensive operations



    And here are two further pictures of Kurdish troops moving over Mount Sinjar yesterday



    And here;

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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    You can't now quibble over how strong one's claim to the land is. I mean, who will be the arbitrator? What % would give a group of people greater rights than another person?



    If a superior army overwhelms their enemies and then overwhelms the native population, then by rights, they are entitled to that land.

    When you fight as a nation, you fight collectively, you win collectively and you lose collectively.


    Having said that, the above is conditional on the fact that the victorious army must not oppress the people, and divert resources to their own native land but they should stay, integrate and assimilate with the local populace and work together to be prosperous.

    I object to the rather simplistic reasoning that just because a group of people were once attached to a particular piece of land, they should be entitled to it for all eternity.
    Lol what?
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    (Original post by 雷尼克)
    Lol what?
    You have an army.
    Your army has enemies.
    Enemies have a citizen population.
    Population is defeated.
    Defeat equals victory for you.
    You integrate, assimilate be and treat the natives good.
    Good means that everyone is happy.
    Happy people equal happy life.
    Life is death.
    Death is the end.
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    (Original post by woIfie)
    Some additional information. ArtofProtest said on here in one of his comments expounding his theories about an ISIL counterattack, that the Kurds had attacked Sinjar from the West.

    When I pointed out that in fact the attack had come substantially from Mount Sinjar, and the Kurdish control of Mount Sinjar would make it extremely difficult for an ISIL counterattack, he claimed that this was impossible as they could not send vehicles over the mountain.

    Here is a map released by the US Department of Defence showing a map of the offensive operations



    And here are two further pictures of Kurdish troops moving over Mount Sinjar yesterday



    And here;

    Link to DoD map?
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    Link to DoD map?
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/liv...es-jihadi-john

    The entry at 16:56 on the liveblog. This map was provided by Colonel Warren at the Centcom briefing this afternoon.

    As you can see, the Kurds went straight over Mount Sinjar. They set up artillery on the mountain, for obvious reasons as it provides excellent field of view and additional elevation allows further range for the artillery. It makes absolute sense that they would do what they did, given Sinjar is nestled against the Sinjar range which runs for miles east and east adjacent to Highway 47.

    It's worthwhile looking at the map to get a sense of how Mount Sinjar dominates the terrain for tens of miles around.

    http://isis.liveuamap.com/en/2015/13...al-town-centre

    Edit: I can see you're starting to get chippy on the other thread. Your comment about whether Sinjar is more important to ISIL or the Kurds is less clever or relevant than you appear to think. Sinjar could be the most important town in the whole world as far as ISIL is concerned, and it would be for nought if they simply lack the means to retake it.

    If you're getting chippy I don't think this conversation will be to my profit. I have clearly demonstrated what you said about the battle, the terrain, your claims that the Kurds could not have gone over Mount Sinjar, are clearly wrong.

    I will leave it to the good burghers of TSR to decide who they find more credible, in light of which of us has been repeatedly wrong and which not.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    If a superior army overwhelms their enemies and then overwhelms the native population, then by rights, they are entitled to that land.
    I take it from your comment then that you are pro-Israel?
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    (Original post by woIfie)
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/liv...es-jihadi-john

    The entry at 16:56 on the liveblog. This map was provided by Colonel Warren at the Centcom briefing this afternoon.

    As you can see, the Kurds went straight over Mount Sinjar. They set up artillery on the mountain, for obvious reasons as it provides excellent field of view and additional elevation allows further range for the artillery. It makes absolute sense that they would do what they did, given Sinjar is nestled against the Sinjar range which runs for miles east and east adjacent to Highway 47.

    It's worthwhile looking at the map to get a sense of how Mount Sinjar dominates the terrain for tens of miles around.

    http://isis.liveuamap.com/en/2015/13...al-town-centre

    Edit: I can see you're starting to get chippy on the other thread. Your comment about whether Sinjar is more important to ISIL or the Kurds is less clever or relevant than you appear to think. Sinjar could be the most important town in the whole world as far as ISIL is concerned, and it would be for nought if they simply lack the means to retake it.

    If you're getting chippy I don't think this conversation will be to my profit. I have clearly demonstrated what you said about the battle, the terrain, your claims that the Kurds could not have gone over Mount Sinjar, are clearly wrong.

    I will leave it to the good burghers of TSR to decide who they find more credible, in light of which of us has been repeatedly wrong and which not.
    I get it. Mount Sinjar is vital but to who?

    I must have posed this question at least two times already.

    By the way, what's the dead body count of IS members?
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    (Original post by woIfie)
    I take it from your comment then that you are pro-Israel?
    Yes. I support the existence of a Jewish State.

    Next strawman please?
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    You have an army.
    Your army has enemies.
    Enemies have a citizen population.
    Population is defeated.
    Defeat equals victory for you.
    You integrate, assimilate be and treat the natives good.
    Good means that everyone is happy.
    Happy people equal happy life.
    Life is death.
    Death is the end.
    So you're basically saying that every single invading force in history was morally right to do so because they were stronger? :/

    okay, well don't complain if we ever get invaded by anyone
 
 
 
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