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    (Original post by 0123456543210)
    Solution= forced labour for people unemployed after a certain period of time.
    That exists for many people on benefits. Especially people on JSA.
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    (Original post by mkap)
    i agree, it should be harder for people to get it or they should be encouraged more to find a job. fair enough some people really need benefits but people like my parents work hard and pay tax for people who spend the money on **** and beer.
    Nobody on £72 a week spends their £72 a week budget on **** and beer. Ok maybe they can afford cheap smartprice beer. Do you know how much 20 cigarettes cost? (Of which all goes back into the purse anyway)

    Meanwhile the government is making the unemployed work at multi million £ companies like Tesco for free
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    1) Are you serious? How did you come to that conclusion, the majority of them do.
    2) Back in the purse of who? The businesses whose tax they used in the first place?
    3) Yes to improve their experience and employ-ability, it does not need any more workers so why should it pay them to get experience? Also its not forcing its a government initiative in order to get experience to strengthen your CV.
    i think that wealth is just a state of mind?
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    (Original post by 0123456543210)
    Solution= forced labour for people unemployed after a certain period of time.
    I.e. Workfare. Which is just a system where big businesses who already have enough money to influence the government to leave handy tax loopholes also get the same government to send them loads of free labour so they don't have to employ as many staff and still have the same number of people working for them.
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    (Original post by stargirl63)
    Good, when I have the chance I'll be doing the same.

    If I'm rich enough to want to open an off-shore account, I'm not particularly interested in funding schools or NHS when my children will get private education and private healthcare.

    I'd prefer a "pay as you go " approach to calling police, fire brigade etc - what's the harm in paying for what you use?

    I find tax like everyone going to a restaurant with friends, and everyone ordering significantly different priced meals, and then at the end "splitting the bill equally" ... and you end up paying for your friend's 5 glasses of wine. It's BS.
    Please think about what you're saying ffs.

    Tax is taken from everyone, why do you have the right - simply by virtue of having more money than most - deserve to avoid the tax that gave you an education and kept you alive (if you used the NHS as a minor particularly as you hadnt been taxed at that point) so you can be at the point you are?

    As for your pay as you go approach it will price the poorest out of using services they desperately need. When i was a little kid i had a life threatening illness and spent months in a coma. My treatment cost thousands but my parents were too poor to pay for it, the NHS saved my life. If it was pay as you go people like me would be dead because their families cant afford to keep them alive and that is a disgusting and bleak future. People wont call the police because they wont be able to pay them, they'll be mugged or murdered or watch their worldly possessions burn and be homeless because they werent fortunate enough to be born clever or into money.

    In retrospect i think your post is likely clever trolling and poes law has caught up with me again but i'll leave the opinion out there for anyone mad enough to genuinely think that tax avoidance or PAYG services/the scrapping of the NHS are good ideas.
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    Honestly it was hard for me to try and word what I had in mind. Apologies if I offended anyone, it was only after I read it that I realised it was pretty extreme. The point I'm trying to make is that if we give everyone a free ride in education,nhs etc, society will not know how lucky they actually are. This is where we are going...I have said in other posts how education is abused by kids who give teachers a hard time and those who bunk off (compared to kids in India, Africa who would give their right arm to sit in a lesson ). And I have said that people abuse the nhs by going to the GP for a cold (or other stupid reasons) or ending up in A&E every weekend because they can't handle their drink .

    What I would like to see is people actually appreciating the benefits this country gives,and besides making people pay for what they use ,how else can we do this? Free "allowance" perhaps? I don't know.

    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    Please think about what you're saying ffs.

    In retrospect i think your post is likely clever trolling and poes law has caught up with me again but i'll leave the opinion out there for anyone mad enough to genuinely think that tax avoidance or PAYG services/the scrapping of the NHS are good ideas.
    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    I agreed with your other posts but this point is so retarded it actually makes me question your IQ. I understand what you are trying to get at and like i said i agree with your other posts but this is just too far.
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    try to keep your money in assets as opposed to income, in order to avoid having to pay other people's taxes!
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    (Original post by TSRFT8)
    They are spending the rich peoples money you seem to forget, the rich are the ones paying tax which is used for benefits so technically the money is not actually theirs. Also by your suggestion we should all stop saving money and just stand outside the job center and hand it out like candy.
    If you want to put things that way, then wealthy business owners are spending governments money when they rely on roads government built to deliver their products, schools government built and maintain to employ quality graduates, police and legal system government built to prevent their business being violated, especially on copyright issues, military government pay for to keep your business safe from isis, oh and bailouts when business fails.... etc. Wealthy business benefit from a healthy ecosystem, they just take it for granted and do not appreciate, they do not realise have more to lose than the regular people if society is in chaos.

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    (Original post by stargirl63)
    Good, when I have the chance I'll be doing the same.

    If I'm rich enough to want to open an off-shore account, I'm not particularly interested in funding schools or NHS when my children will get private education and private healthcare.

    I'd prefer a "pay as you go " approach to calling police, fire brigade etc - what's the harm in paying for what you use?

    I find tax like everyone going to a restaurant with friends, and everyone ordering significantly different priced meals, and then at the end "splitting the bill equally" ... and you end up paying for your friend's 5 glasses of wine. It's BS.
    I hope the pay as you go system gets implemented now so there will be no social mobility for you to ever come close to become rich. You are welcomed.

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    (Original post by redferry)
    Not really, most of it just goes into the pension pots of already rich private landlords.
    No that's housing benefit and that system is complete created by the government through high immigration levels and low levels of house building over 30 years mainly caused by planning restrictions


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    (Original post by AdjectiveNoun)
    More money is lost through tax evasion than spent on benefits.
    And what?

    Why do people think this is a relevant comment?
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    (Original post by stargirl63)
    Good, when I have the chance I'll be doing the same.

    If I'm rich enough to want to open an off-shore account, I'm not particularly interested in funding schools or NHS when my children will get private education and private healthcare.

    I'd prefer a "pay as you go " approach to calling police, fire brigade etc - what's the harm in paying for what you use?

    I find tax like everyone going to a restaurant with friends, and everyone ordering significantly different priced meals, and then at the end "splitting the bill equally" ... and you end up paying for your friend's 5 glasses of wine. It's BS.
    So your example does this.

    You call the police the local gang of drug dealers are outside and you have seen a gun. You live in a poor area hence the gang and the police charge you 2k to come out when you could be in danger or doing your civic duty.

    Meanwhile in the rich area there are many less calls as there is less crime.

    So basically you punish the law abiding poor.


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    (Original post by stargirl63)
    Honestly it was hard for me to try and word what I had in mind. Apologies if I offended anyone, it was only after I read it that I realised it was pretty extreme. The point I'm trying to make is that if we give everyone a free ride in education,nhs etc, society will not know how lucky they actually are. This is where we are going...I have said in other posts how education is abused by kids who give teachers a hard time and those who bunk off (compared to kids in India, Africa who would give their right arm to sit in a lesson ). And I have said that people abuse the nhs by going to the GP for a cold (or other stupid reasons) or ending up in A&E every weekend because they can't handle their drink .

    What I would like to see is people actually appreciating the benefits this country gives,and besides making people pay for what they use ,how else can we do this? Free "allowance" perhaps? I don't know.
    The public have the right to those services as they were fought for by our ancestors.

    The kind of policies you have mentioned are what we had before, it wasn't better.

    People mention tax evasion for a reason.

    When you look at the welfare bill a tiny fraction of that is jsa which is what you are moaning about were talking a few billion which pales into comparison with tax evasion, or money we waste on the eu, or trident (if you are of that mind) or bad public expenditure like nhs drug purchasing things that can be brought for a fraction of the price they pay.

    Basically you don't sweat the smaller stuff until you have sorted out the larger issues.

    Also the state now spends a much lower amount by percentage of gdp than it has in the recent past. One of the lowest in Europe.

    I say this as the son of a VP for an extremely large software company for Europe, Middle East and Africa aka the genuinely rich.


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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    It supposedly comes from Milton Friedman who is the wet dream of the current crop of world leaders. But they ignore a lot of what he said. The guy supported a negative income tax (you give money to people who do not earn enough to pay tax).
    he supported that as an alternative to welfare programmes. he testified against it before congress because they wanted to add it onto existing welfare
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    (Original post by paul514)
    No that's housing benefit and that system is complete created by the government through high immigration levels and low levels of house building over 30 years mainly caused by planning restrictions


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    Noone specified what kind of benefits. The housing benefit bill is far more out of control than out of work benefits and regardless of who caused the problem my point still stands.
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    (Original post by ElephantMemory)
    That exists for many people on benefits. Especially people on JSA.
    if you consider 9 hour work weeks adequate, then sure
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    (Original post by stargirl63)

    What I would like to see is people actually appreciating the benefits this country gives,and besides making people pay for what they use ,how else can we do this? Free "allowance" perhaps? I don't know.
    That means people like me are seriously ****ed. I've got numerous long term illnesses, one of which will end up leaving me blind and another which will kill me. I've also learnt this week I'm taking something which is giving me hearing problems.

    Not all of us who go to the doctors go there for fun.

    Make people pay for the services they use and you're penalising people with long term medical problems. People like my cousins child who is in and out of hospital because his lungs haven't developed properly and he gets chest infections constantly.

    And no, we wouldn't be able to get health insurance either because of the conditions we have.
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    That means people like me are seriously ****ed. I've got numerous long term illnesses, one of which will end up leaving me blind and another which will kill me. I've also learnt this week I'm taking something which is giving me hearing problems.

    Not all of us who go to the doctors go there for fun.

    Make people pay for the services they use and you're penalising people with long term medical problems. People like my cousins child who is in and out of hospital because his lungs haven't developed properly and he gets chest infections constantly.

    And no, we wouldn't be able to get health insurance either because of the conditions we have.
    a great way to reduce the barrier to health care is to reduce regulation and allow insurance companies and medical providers to compete. that will lower the cost and increase outcomes tremendously
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    Stop complaining about people on benefits. They are there to help people survive. Just because you have more money does not mean your life is worth more than mine.

    People on benefits are taxed more heavily than the rich. My dad has 80% of his earnings taken because we claim benefits, and so we need the benefit money even more.

    Also, to the people saying we should only have private education and healthcare, **** OFF. If you want to put your child into that, go ahead. But not everyone has the money to be able to. Do you want us to become like America, where having a cast taken off will cost you $2000+ and giving birth costs tens of thousands of dollars?!
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    (Original post by supernerdural)
    Stop complaining about people on benefits. They are there to help people survive. Just because you have more money does not mean your life is worth more than mine.

    People on benefits are taxed more heavily than the rich. My dad has 80% of his earnings taken because we claim benefits, and so we need the benefit money even more.

    Also, to the people saying we should only have private education and healthcare, **** OFF. If you want to put your child into that, go ahead. But not everyone has the money to be able to. Do you want us to become like America, where having a cast taken off will cost you $2000+ and giving birth costs tens of thousands of dollars?!
    (Original post by stargirl63)
    What I would like to see is people actually appreciating the benefits this country gives
    spot on
 
 
 
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