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Thoughts on death watch

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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    So according to Science, when you die, and your brain stops working, that's it. Your consciousness is gone. No more feelings. No more memories. No more you.
    I get that it is incomprehensible to the human mind, as everything I stated above is how we know the world and ourselves. In Christianity, Islam and Judaism (I believe) there is a heaven, which an ideal place, and hell, a bad place. I'm not sure exactly how good or bad you need to be to go to either, but if that were what happened after death, I'd be fine.
    In my religion, Hinduism, it states that your soul may move into another body (reincarnation), or join with God. But either way, your consciousness and identity is gone, so it does not console me.

    My main fear, is knowing that after I've done everything I can do in life, I'll just be gone. Extinguished.
    My biggest hope is that I get to keep my mind somehow, because I'll go mad knowing that I won't.
    Please don't advise me to enjoy life, as I already am, but rather give your thoughts on what happens after death, and how you console yourself/ cope with the thought of Eternal Oblivion.
    There is a passage of scripture from the bible, which your post reminded me of:-

    "For there is no lasting remembrance of the wise man as with the fool, inasmuch as in the coming days all will be forgotten. And how the wise man and the fool alike die! So I hated life, for the work which had been done under the sun was grievous to me; because everything is futility and striving after wind".
    Ecclesiaties 2 v 17

    Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary of the bible says of these verses

    Solomon found that knowledge and prudence were preferable to ignorance and folly, though human wisdom and knowledge will not make a man happy. The most learned of men, who dies a stranger to Christ Jesus, will perish equally with the most ignorant; and what good can commendations on earth do to the body in the grave, or the soul in hell? And the spirits of just men made perfect cannot want them. So that if this were all, we might be led to hate our life, as it is all vanity and vexation of spirit

    As a Christian I have a hope for eternity that is assured to me. Christianity is the only faith that shows God reaching down to man, sending Jesus to be the bridge to reach Him. God lets us know in 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance".

    The bible also says "Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.…"

    As a Christian we have a new and fresh outlook on life and in turn a fresh and new outlook on eternity in heaven.

    Also we believe we will know each other in Heaven even though our relationships will be different as there will be no marriage etc. And we will be changed and have heavenly resurrected bodies as these earthly bodies are full of decay and sin.

    There is no hope in any other name except the name of Jesus.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)

    My main fear, is knowing that after I've done everything I can do in life, I'll just be gone. Extinguished.
    My biggest hope is that I get to keep my mind somehow, because I'll go mad knowing that I won't.
    Please don't advise me to enjoy life, as I already am, but rather give your thoughts on what happens after death, and how you console yourself/ cope with the thought of Eternal Oblivion.
    in my view, absolutely nothing happens after death. You're gone, and that's it.

    Strangely, I don't find this a problem at all: on the contrary, it's a bit of a relief. Gone are all the difficulties, contradictions, worries...

    of course, if you are a Muslim or a Christian, you may picture yourself precipitated into eternal Hellfire, with molten lead poured down your ears ... that's a different story altogether
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    (Original post by yasminkattan)
    The 77 virgins (or however many) thing is made up. Won't get into a debate but thought you should know.
    There's no doubt that the Quran and Hadith entices its believing men with virgins of paradise:

    "Indeed, We have produced the women of Paradise in a [new] creation And made them virgins." [56:35]

    And in the Hadiths this is marketed more heavily for martyrs (which is where the number 72 comes from and even 100 "a day"):

    It was narrated that al-Miqdaam ibn Ma’di Yakrib said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The martyr has six blessings with Allaah: he will be forgiven from the first drop of blood shed; he will be shown his place in Paradise; he will be protected from the torment of the grave; he will be safe from the greater terror; a crown of dignity will be placed on his head, one ruby of which is better than this world and everything in it; he will be married to seventy-two wives from al-hoor al-‘iyn; and he will intercede for seventy of his relatives.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1663; Ibn Maajah, 2799; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

    And more than that has been narrated. Abu Na’eem narrated in Sifat al-Jannah from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A man will go to one hundred virgins in one day – i.e., in Paradise.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah, 367.

    https://islamqa.info/en/25843
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    I have ever sat cross-legged meditating for about 3 hrs without moving any part of the body. And no pins & needles ..no pain after that. And then I realized the body was actually not me. I'm something deep inside . It's kinda like emptiness in the body. Body & emptiness don't mix, do they?

    That's the way to know things about the afterlife. Science fails to explain anything like that. Because those scientific theories are based on materialism. Those materialists always reject spiritualism.

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    People fail to remember that oblivion before you were born wasn't eternal- it stopped when you were born.

    If there is nothing left for YOU (your consciousness, identity, sentience, etc) after you die, then it is eternal.

    If there is even SOMETHING that allows you to retain some sort of identity or semi-conscious after death- it would be a big relief. Even sleep contains periods of complete unconsciousness with unconsciousness. If death is like that, I may not be as scared of it.
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    I tell the grim-reaper to suck a ****, thats what i think of death
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    I was millimetres from being hit by a car this week. By the time the vehicle stopped, the bumper was already in contact with me, and my hand was on the bonnet. I remember having time to think, quite dispassionately, 'o bug*er, if I'm lucky, I'll be able to phone my family from the hospital.'

    With hindsight, what really scares me is how much time we have to process the reality of a potentially serious accident in the moment that it occurs. It made me realise that I would really prefer to die at home, quietly, of old age, rather than in any other circumstances when I would be conscious that it was all over.
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    (Original post by Racoon)


    As a Christian I have a hope for eternity that is assured to me. Christianity is the only faith that shows God reaching down to man, sending Jesus to be the bridge to reach Him.
    But unlike Islam, Racoon, Christianity's reach is limited. Christianity fails when there is no pre-existing dogma like Original Sin. Islam is Christianity stripped off the parts that are not universal. Imagine giving the good news to someone in the middle of the Amazon (who happens to speak English), you'll struggle won't you? As a Muslim it's a lot easier. Prophets were sent to all nations calling them towards monotheism (Unity of God and Mankind) and that is the only think I should call them towards.

    God lets us know in 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance".

    The bible also says "Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.…"

    As a Christian we have a new and fresh outlook on life and in turn a fresh and new outlook on eternity in heaven.

    Also we believe we will know each other in Heaven even though our relationships will be different as there will be no marriage etc. And we will be changed and have heavenly resurrected bodies as these earthly bodies are full of decay and sin.
    Doesn't make sense. Why should we be like Angels when God has Angels. Humans are made from earth and nothing of God's creations are " full of decay and sin". If God created Man in His Image why did Adam and Jesus need to eat, and why did Adam feel incomplete without a spouse? Sex, eating or living a human life is not "necessary evil" if done without transgressing God's limit and while praising and thanking God.

    God has kept some "earthly" desires in men not as a condemnation for some sin or for success in evolution - but as a result of His Mercy.

    There is no hope in any other name except the name of Jesus.

    And so you close the door of hope to the billions of people who have not heard of Jesus and to the billions of people who lived and died before Jesus.
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    (Original post by Sciatic)
    But unlike Islam, Racoon, Christianity's reach is limited. Christianity fails when there is no pre-existing dogma like Original Sin. Islam is Christianity stripped off the parts that are not universal. Imagine giving the good news to someone in the middle of the Amazon (who happens to speak English), you'll struggle won't you? As a Muslim it's a lot easier. Prophets were sent to all nations calling them towards monotheism (Unity of God and Mankind) and that is the only think I should call them towards.
    Hi, I'll reply in three posts.

    I said

    As a Christian I have a hope for eternity that is assured to me. Christianity is the only faith that shows God reaching down to man, sending Jesus to be the bridge to reach Him.

    Thank you for replying. You have raised some interesting points but I beg to differ on your conclusions.

    Taking your example of people groups living in isolation around the world, Christianity and the person of Christ appeals to everyone because we all have a universal need. We can see in nature and our own human nature, the desperate need for salvation.

    For example, we can all recognise there is bad within us. We can never be in our own strength the good people we recognise we ought to be. We also see and experience suffering and decay. This fits in with the revelation from the bible, that we live in a fallen world separated from God.

    The gospel of Jesus states, that through faith in Him that divine relationship between God as our Father and as us as his children can be re-established because the problem of sin has been dealt with on the cross and we do not have to work our way back to him to be accepted, we can experience his love and fellowship all our lives and with the promise of eternity.

    All cultures and people can recognise this and respond to God reaching out towards them in Jesus.
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    (Original post by Sciatic)
    ....
    Doesn't make sense. Why should we be like Angels when God has Angels. Humans are made from earth and nothing of God's creations are " full of decay and sin". If God created Man in His Image why did Adam and Jesus need to eat, and why did Adam feel incomplete without a spouse? Sex, eating or living a human life is not "necessary evil" if done without transgressing God's limit and while praising and thanking God.

    God has kept some "earthly" desires in men not as a condemnation for some sin or for success in evolution - but as a result of His Mercy.
    If creation didn't decay why do things die? Including most importantly ourselves. Look around you. God created the earth teeming with his creation, yet every month thousands of species become extinct. We have a cap on our longevity of 120 years. The bible says this is because of God's grace and mercy to us to avoid prolonged suffering, because to live any longer we would be suffering.

    Our human body is not fit for heavenly eternity, that's why the bible says 'behold, I make all things new'.

    Do you therefore believe your eternal body will be just like your earthly body? How can that be?

    You believe that the bible is in parts a forerunner of the Koran and we are quoting what Jesus said, and that is our source.

    As regard to being made from earth as stated in the Koran
    “Verily We created man from a product of (wet) earth [23:12-14]

    that is a copy of the creation in Genesis
    "But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground. Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being
    (Genesis 2 v 7)

    Where God is quoted as saying 'let us make man in our own image' we are not suggesting God has to eat, but in His creation he intended that we should get our nourishment for our life from food and enjoyment in eating as part of his creation.

    Adam ate and Jesus ate as they were human, Jesus alluded to the fact that that we would be eating in heaven too (the last supper).

    I don't deny the fact that God has created good desires within us (and due to sin some bad desires as well). Sex is multifaceted and there is no doubt that one of the reasons for God creating sex was for the procreation of children.

    “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:”Genesis 1:27-28

    We are designed to be attracted to one another, to have sex, to procreate the earth within marriage

    “Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled:.... .”Hebrews 13:4

    But there is more to it than this, otherwise God could have made us to be like fish with no physical contact in reproduction at all.

    There is also symbolism in marriage of Christ, and the church which the bible refers to many times as the 'bride'.

    But in Heaven the desires of this world will be changed. You view heaven with your earthly eyes, earthly desires, earthly wants. Your concept of paradise and mine of heaven is totally opposite becasue I read that everything will be changed but you see it more of a continuation.

    Please have a look at the link for a more detailed explanation.
    Thanks

    http://www.gotquestions.org/sex-heaven.html
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    (Original post by Sciatic)
    .....
    And so you close the door of hope to the billions of people who have not heard of Jesus and to the billions of people who lived and died before Jesus.
    There is no hope in any other name except the name of Jesus.

    Thank you for that valid statement and comment. Which as you point out is very bleak if interpreted that way.

    The biblical point (made by God) is God has made a way by which ALL people can be saved. By the sanctifying work of Christ.

    Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14 v 6

    What this is saying is that people can only be accepted by God in Christ. Everyone in the Old Testament, from Adam onwards could only be saved through Christ and everyone since the New Testament onwards can only be saved through Christ.

    All peoples of the world, whether they have heard of Jesus or not can only be saved through Christ.

    We have the luxury of being able to hear the good News and being able to respond through it.

    We can only respond to the measure of revelation given to us. The apostle Paul eludes to this in some of the epistles that God stirs peoples hearts towards Him and that we do not have an excuse, we have the full revelation before us.
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    There is no hope in any other name except the name of Jesus.

    Thank you for that valid statement and comment. Which as you point out is very bleak if interpreted that way.

    The biblical point (made by God) is God has made a way by which ALL people can be saved. By the sanctifying work of Christ.

    Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14 v 6

    What this is saying is that people can only be accepted by God in Christ. Everyone in the Old Testament, from Adam onwards could only be saved through Christ and everyone since the New Testament onwards can only be saved through Christ.

    All peoples of the world, whether they have heard of Jesus or not can only be saved through Christ.

    We have the luxury of being able to hear the good News and being able to respond through it.

    We can only respond to the measure of revelation given to us. The apostle Paul eludes to this in some of the epistles that God stirs peoples hearts towards Him and that we do not have an excuse, we have the full revelation before us.
    Do you know what 'sententious' means?
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    So according to Science, when you die, and your brain stops working, that's it. Your consciousness is gone. No more feelings. No more memories. No more you.
    I get that it is incomprehensible to the human mind, as everything I stated above is how we know the world and ourselves. In Christianity, Islam and Judaism (I believe) there is a heaven, which an ideal place, and hell, a bad place. I'm not sure exactly how good or bad you need to be to go to either, but if that were what happened after death, I'd be fine.
    In my religion, Hinduism, it states that your soul may move into another body (reincarnation), or join with God. But either way, your consciousness and identity is gone, so it does not console me.

    My main fear, is knowing that after I've done everything I can do in life, I'll just be gone. Extinguished.
    My biggest hope is that I get to keep my mind somehow, because I'll go mad knowing that I won't.
    Please don't advise me to enjoy life, as I already am, but rather give your thoughts on what happens after death, and how you console yourself/ cope with the thought of Eternal Oblivion.
    It's just a fact of life your born to die some go sooner than others carpe diem
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    Hi, I'll reply in three posts.

    I said

    As a Christian I have a hope for eternity that is assured to me. Christianity is the only faith that shows God reaching down to man, sending Jesus to be the bridge to reach Him.

    Thank you for replying. You have raised some interesting points but I beg to differ on your conclusions.

    Taking your example of people groups living in isolation around the world, Christianity and the person of Christ appeals to everyone because we all have a universal need. We can see in nature and our own human nature, the desperate need for salvation.

    For example, we can all recognise there is bad within us. We can never be in our own strength the good people we recognise we ought to be. We also see and experience suffering and decay. This fits in with the revelation from the bible, that we live in a fallen world separated from God.

    The gospel of Jesus states, that through faith in Him that divine relationship between God as our Father and as us as his children can be re-established because the problem of sin has been dealt with on the cross and we do not have to work our way back to him to be accepted, we can experience his love and fellowship all our lives and with the promise of eternity.

    All cultures and people can recognise this and respond to God reaching out towards them in Jesus.
    Not all cultures have the idea of "sin" as the way the Christian thinks of it. Tbh there is no way the Christian concept of salvation could be universally acceptable simply because the concept of Original Sin and all what it entails is rather far-fetched.

    Islam on the other hand calls towards Unity in the Divine and in Mankind. And the ever-lasting life as Islam describes it is kinda what humans want, you have to agree. For example can you describe your dream home? Surely you'll want it to be of palaces and gardens with rivers and waterfalls. And if you're normal you'll want much more than that. Islam doesn't condemn human nature. And it is not as if the Divine is not sufficient a satisfying presence. The most rewarding of blessings would be the Divine Presence, but that doesn't mean human natures is of waste.

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    (Original post by Racoon)
    If creation didn't decay why do things die? Including most importantly ourselves. Look around you. God created the earth teeming with his creation, yet every month thousands of species become extinct. We have a cap on our longevity of 120 years. The bible says this is because of God's grace and mercy to us to avoid prolonged suffering, because to live any longer we would be suffering.
    I agree with you that this life is full of suffering. But I don't agree with you that decay is a result of sin and not because of the fact that the earth is not our permanent home. The angels questioned God as to why He is going to create another race that would only corrupt the earth. The earth was pure and it would be changed into a new earth, not because of sin but because God would renew all Creation into a state where his authority would be supreme.

    The earth was NOT teeming with creation before we appeared, and it is we who populated it. The earth was meant for us. It was meant to be our temporal homes and it was always like that. The dinosaurs was wiped out not because of anything we have done.

    Death is not a consequence of sin. Even if Adam hadn't been willed to sin (sin as being an action and not a state), he would have died. Everything except God would have to die regardless of how evil or good they are. The Angel Gabriel would have to die and the Devil would have to die. Every atom and every abstract thing would have to die. This is a central concept in Islam. Death is not a result of sin - it is the result of being ungodly. Even the angel who blows the Trumpet would die. Everything would be altered into a new creation by God.

    Our human body is not fit for heavenly eternity, that's why the bible says 'behold, I make all things new'.
    But what makes us human would still be what makes us human

    Do you therefore believe your eternal body will be just like your earthly body? How can that be?
    Not exactly. We don't know how the new creations will be like. But we do know that our natures will remain, without which there is no justice. Everything cannot be like Jesus - we are all different and God made us like that.

    You believe that the bible is in parts a forerunner of the Koran and we are quoting what Jesus said, and that is our source.

    As regard to being made from earth as stated in the Koran
    “Verily We created man from a product of (wet) earth [23:12-14]

    that is a copy of the creation in Genesis
    "But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground. Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being
    (Genesis 2 v 7)
    Dust from the ground? So even before Adam sinned he was in this state. Why did he need a wife if he had God?

    Because we are humans before, now and after.

    Where God is quoted as saying 'let us make man in our own image' we are not suggesting God has to eat, but in His creation he intended that we should get our nourishment for our life from food and enjoyment in eating as part of his creation.

    Adam ate and Jesus ate as they were human, Jesus alluded to the fact that that we would be eating in heaven too (the last supper).
    So if you would eat in heaven what stops you from having sex?

    If Jesus ate, why didn't he have sex and produce children of God? Surely we share his image or nature. Everything was created for a purpose. I believe that Jesus has or would have children, just like Isaac had children even though both were probably themselves born without any male intervention

    I don't deny the fact that God has created good desires within us (and due to sin some bad desires as well). Sex is multifaceted and there is no doubt that one of the reasons for God creating sex was for the procreation of children.

    “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:”Genesis 1:27-28

    We are designed to be attracted to one another, to have sex, to procreate the earth within marriage
    God created love as well as lust and these two natures/feelings are everlasting as long as we are everlasting. If God created food and drink and gave us leave to enjoy it (not merely only for survival), then God could as well create lust as a blessing.

    “Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled:.... .”Hebrews 13:4

    But there is more to it than this, otherwise God could have made us to be like fish with no physical contact in reproduction at all.
    Yes.

    And also when we have sex we don't do as animals do.

    There is also symbolism in marriage of Christ, and the church which the bible refers to many times as the 'bride'.
    Yeah, but we believe that Jesus would marry an actual woman, just like Adam did. The bride is not an international church. It's rather strange for Paul to use such metaphorical language.

    But in Heaven the desires of this world will be changed. You view heaven with your earthly eyes, earthly desires, earthly wants. Your concept of paradise and mine of heaven is totally opposite becasue I read that everything will be changed but you see it more of a continuation.
    Adam didn't have "earthly" desires before he sin - he had "human" desires. He felt lonely without Eve not because of some "earthly" desire but because he was a human. Everything will be changed but doesn't mean we all end up angels.
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    There is no hope in any other name except the name of Jesus.

    Thank you for that valid statement and comment. Which as you point out is very bleak if interpreted that way.

    The biblical point (made by God) is God has made a way by which ALL people can be saved. By the sanctifying work of Christ.

    Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14 v 6

    What this is saying is that people can only be accepted by God in Christ. Everyone in the Old Testament, from Adam onwards could only be saved through Christ and everyone since the New Testament onwards can only be saved through Christ.

    All peoples of the world, whether they have heard of Jesus or not can only be saved through Christ.

    We have the luxury of being able to hear the good News and being able to respond through it.

    We can only respond to the measure of revelation given to us. The apostle Paul eludes to this in some of the epistles that God stirs peoples hearts towards Him and that we do not have an excuse, we have the full revelation before us.
    " All peoples of the world, whether they have heard of Jesus or not can only be saved through Christ." <== you haven't explain this, nah. How can a person who haven't heard of the nature of Christ be "saved"? I mean why would an innocent baby brand new from the mothers womb need " saving" in the first place?

    How would a Merciful God lock you up for your father's sin and throw the keys away from you?

    Did Jesus, upon whom is God's peace, even teach us that we are all evil by default?


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    [Duplicate post]
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    (Original post by Longshot700)
    Am I the only one befuddled by the date this was posted?
    yes, I thought that as well...
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Do you know what 'sententious' means?
    I'm sorry you felt that way.

    I not moralising just trying to explain the theology of the bible and Christian belief.
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    (Original post by Sciatic)
    Not all cultures have the idea of "sin" as the way the Christian thinks of it. Tbh there is no way the Christian concept of salvation could be universally acceptable simply because the concept of Original Sin and all what it entails is rather far-fetched.

    Islam on the other hand calls towards Unity in the Divine and in Mankind. And the ever-lasting life as Islam describes it is kinda what humans want, you have to agree. For example can you describe your dream home? Surely you'll want it to be of palaces and gardens with rivers and waterfalls. And if you're normal you'll want much more than that. Islam doesn't condemn human nature. And it is not as if the Divine is not sufficient a satisfying presence. The most rewarding of blessings would be the Divine Presence, but that doesn't mean human natures is of waste. Posted from TSR Mobile
    Anyone will recognise we all have a conscience and we don't always follow it. That is the biblical view, you many call it original sin if you wish but its a recognition of human sinful nature.

    Doesn't Islam condemn human nature? Doesn't it require you to pray 5 times, visit Mecca etc? If not aren't you condemned? Doesn't each person have two angels keeping a chart on your shoulders with scales weighing your good and bad deeds. Aren't you hopeful that you might get into paradise, will you know if you have ever done enough? Where is God's grace and mercy?

    I agree that the greatest reward is the presence of God but not the material trappings of what this world sees as fulfilling. No I do not dream of a big palace in the sky with waterfalls, my sights are set on being with Jesus.

    Saying this the bible says

    "but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM." For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.…"

    But that is for eternity, it shouldn't concern us now.



    As Christians we can experience the reality of God's presence now because we are all able to enter His holy presence by the shed blood of Christ.
 
 
 
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