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    (Original post by ckfeister)
    Also, we are now OUT of the political European Union.
    nope. still there.
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    (Original post by ckfeister)
    Benefits, brake for 7 years on as he just said. Whoever comes in 2017 won't get some benefits till 2021, then 2021 then 2025. We got a special EU status as we speak, we will never join eurozone, or eurozone superstate, we won't join their boarderless agreement, if they don't get a job in 6 months they get kicked out. If they get benefits that go aboard, they get THEIR country rates.
    Also, we are now OUT of the political European Union.
    Classic comedy mate


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Classic comedy mate


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    Go and listen to what David Cameron said, not bothering to explain.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    nope. still there.
    Once deal has been added we won't. We already do things on our own but little bits with our neighbours, the European Union. Cameron said that today.
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    (Original post by ckfeister)
    Once deal has been added we won't. We already do things on our own but little bits with our neighbours, the European Union. Cameron said that today.
    got proof?
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    (Original post by ckfeister)
    Go and listen to what David Cameron said, not bothering to explain.
    I've seen it, I'm afraid you are going to need to explain how we won't be in a political union after voting in.

    This should be good


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    What a surprise, he came back with nothing, the only thing he could ever get and that's before taking into account he's a massive europhile so the others in the negotiations knew they could give him nothing and he would campaign to stay in. He could probably have even been offered the formal federalisation of Europe and say it's massive reforms in our favour that we should take.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    What a surprise, he came back with nothing, the only thing he could ever get and that's before taking into account he's a massive europhile so the others in the negotiations knew they could give him nothing and he would campaign to stay in. He could probably have even been offered the formal federalisation of Europe and say it's massive reforms in our favour that we should take.

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    Things are looking good for boris if he campaigns out and we leave.


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    You know I can't help wondering why the EU seems to be surprisingly sanguine about giving us what it would seem to most to be a poor deal.

    I mean surely it can't be in their best interests for Britain to leave can it ?


    I just struggle to understand them.

    Well,unless they are simply gambling on the British people voting for the devil they know.

    I have to say that I have a sneaking admiration for the way Europe appears to be making a fool of Cameron and that's not because I'm anti Tory as Cameron isn't right wing.


    Anyway it seems as if we are going to vote to come out which would create a truly fascinating situation for the next few years.

    But what if we voted to stay in!!?

    I think that would cause so much anger and frustration among a great many people that it would make the next election somewhat more interesting than it otherwise would have been to say the least.

    It increasingly seems that Britain is damned if we do and damned if we don't.

    I can't wait for the result personally.
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    The eu is a threat to britsh sovereignty. I hear about over 70% of parliamentary laws are influenced and directed by EU regulations
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    (Original post by Mentally)
    The eu is a threat to britsh sovereignty. I hear about over 70% of parliamentary laws are influenced and directed by EU regulations

    See, I just don't know why this is such a problem for so many people.

    I mean leaving aside the fact that Britain takes part in forming those EU laws doesn't it?


    Why should I be happier knowing the laws that are made are made by a group of rich right wing people who all own more than one house and are unduly influenced by big business and have proven time and time again to be short -termist than by a larger group of people?
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    "Britains exit would rock the West (including Australia and Japan and the Americas) to its foundations."


    Quote from this mornings Times.(Matthew Parris)





    That's it then.....I'm definitely voting to come out.
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    (Original post by moggis)
    See, I just don't know why this is such a problem for so many people.

    I mean leaving aside the fact that Britain takes part in forming those EU laws doesn't it?


    Why should I be happier knowing the laws that are made are made by a group of rich right wing people who all own more than one house and are unduly influenced by big business and have proven time and time again to be short -termist than by a larger group of people?
    We have 14% of the say on these things and lest we forget there is the in elected council that does most of the important stuff.

    The reason it matters is simply democracy and sovereignty we choose our rules not a foreign power and our people elect all the people who have this power over us directly.

    The people of the U.K. Want what's best for the uk. The Eu wants what's best for the eu.


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    (Original post by moggis)
    See, I just don't know why this is such a problem for so many people.

    I mean leaving aside the fact that Britain takes part in forming those EU laws doesn't it?


    Why should I be happier knowing the laws that are made are made by a group of rich right wing people who all own more than one house and are unduly influenced by big business and have proven time and time again to be short -termist than by a larger group of people?
    Heres an issue... ummm lack of democracy for the british people to decide what should actually go on in their own country?
    The influence britain has on eu laws for british policies is minitaure compared to the total rest.
    I agree completely with your second point however, my main reason for voting to leave is the dire threat of the centralisation of power if you truely fear the influence of big multi_billion businesses.
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    there are BUNCH of smaller countries in EU that do not get support from rest of the EU. Even if Turkey, Bosnia and Albania have limited resources they can still exert an influence on the EU.
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    The eurosceptics will vote out no matter what, to them in doesn't matter how good or bad this deal is. Personally I think the EU needs major reform but we can only achieve it by staying in, there will be treaty change sooner or later because of the migrant crisis, that is when real negotiations happen.
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    (Original post by Snufkin)
    The eurosceptics will vote out no matter what, to them in doesn't matter how good or bad this deal is. Personally I think the EU needs major reform but we can only achieve it by staying in, there will be treaty change sooner or later because of the migrant crisis, that is when real negotiations happen.
    Yea so why hasn't the supposed major reform needed happened in the last 40 years? Lol

    So naive


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    (Original post by paul514)
    Yea so why hasn't the supposed major reform needed happened in the last 40 years? Lol

    So naive


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    The UK is the main country which wants reform, yet we don't properly engage in the EU. Until we do that there won't be reform, nobody to blame but ourselves.
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    I think the reason getting reform is like getting blood from a stone is because we are not really attempting to build bridges with other Member States to create a coalition of countries that want change. I think this is part of the problem in these negotiations imo.

    I still think the EU isn't democratic. The European Parliament is the only elected body and cannot initiate legislation, what sort of legislature cannot initiate legislation? I will be voting to Leave due to the remaining issues I have with the EU.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I think that what Cameron is trying to negotiate for is so utterly pathetic that it's not worth bothering with. What's he trying to achieve? For the best part his demands are pretty nebulous with the one concrete exception of wanting to stop those coming to the UK from claiming certain benefits until they have been resident for four years.

    And Cameron negotiates with a nod and a wink letting those across the table know that come what may he's probably going to be campaigning to stay in anyway. Who goes to a negotiating table with that strategy? Only an imbecile. It must be like negotiating with a four year old. Those across the table must be in stitches. He's already using ridiculous scaremongering tactics so has shown his hand.

    And when it eventually comes to the referendum he will instruct (or otherwise coerce or blackmail) his ministers and backbenchers to tow the party line, and will probably use public money to fund his IN campaign while allowing plenty of EU money to do the same thing.

    What a waste of everybody's time. It's a fudge. What he's asking for is pathetic. If he achieves it it'll still be pathetic. If he doesn't it'll be even more pathetic, And come what may the UK will be faced with a rigged referendum anyway.

    Move along people, nothing to see here.
    Good points well made. :yep:

    It's nice to see the quality of people gathering together to recommend Brexit.



    The real question is, when you see the kinds of people who are urging us to leave, how can any serious person possibly be considering supporting them?
 
 
 
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