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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Well your job title wasn't fee earner. It's a vague word used in the legal industry for someone who generates income. I'll rephrase my point; you cannot be a solicitor without a degree and it'd be very difficult to get a job as a paralegal without a law degree


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    The position was a paralegal job. I got the job because I was experienced in the processes of high volume conveyancing.

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    (Original post by Darkphilosopher)
    Because the government won't dish out free money to you...?

    Get ****ed.

    If you study a half decent subject the debt will be paid off in no time.
    No sweetheart I just don't want to leave uni with a ton of debt. I'm sure students who come from a ghetto area of London like me would agree.

    Problem?
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    No sweetheart I just don't want to leave uni with a ton of debt. I'm sure students who come from a ghetto area of London like me would agree.

    Problem?
    Why does it matter, it'll barely effect you once you've finished...
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    (Original post by I_Mir)
    There are thousands of people who end up saddled with heaps of debt. Its disgusting. University degrees mean less and less as so many people have them these days. I really feel sorry for people who take out huge loans to go to uni and then go and work in low paid jobs that they are overqualified for. Unis are just big money making machines now. Its vile!
    You are an adult. Society does not owe you anything. Society is already lending you money that you have to pay no interest on. Be grateful.
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    i think it is sensible... it might be an idea to extend them to VI forms.
    After all , A levels confer enhanced earning power on the student so it is only fair for them to pay for that advantage.
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    "Saddled with debt" LOL!

    Get in the real world, mate. It doesn't even affect you.
    You only start paying it back once you start making circa 20 grand and after that you pay proportionally more in line with whatever pay rise you get.
    It's not something that gets factored in when you apply for a mortgage or other finance products.
    Not even worth thinking about.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    i think it is sensible... it might be an idea to extend them to VI forms.
    After all , A levels confer enhanced earning power on the student so it is only fair for them to pay for that advantage.
    Surely if education is compulsory until 18 what you are advocating is the end of free education.

    How come most of Europe provides just as excellent university education as England without charging extortionate fees? I think WM has its priorities wrong. It should be investing in its youth, not screwing them into financial slavery. Most of he comments on this thread makes me think of turkeys voting for Christmas.
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    (Original post by Elise213)
    If everyone thought like that no one would be in uni. Everyone knows its overpriced but at the end of the day if someone wants to become a doctor, what other route do they have of taking?
    It's overpriced is it?

    I'm doing a 4 year degree in Electronic Engineering. I get a loan of £9k per year for tuition fees and approximately £3800 per year in maintenance loans.

    Over the course of my degree I will take on £51,200 worth of debt.

    Working on the average salary progression for graduates in my field, over the 30 years after graduation I will pay a total of just under £50,000 towards my student debt before the remainder and any interest that is built up over the years is written off.

    Now, I graduate at 25 and assuming I work to retirement age of 65 that gives me a 40 year career.

    To make University financially worth it I need to, over the course of my career, earn at least £50,000 more than I would without a degree, because if my career earnings are at least £50,000 more than they would be if I didn't have the degree then even once you have taken into account my student loan payments I am still financially better off.

    Will my degree in Electronic Engineering allow me to earn £1250 more per year than I would be able to without my degree? Of course it will.

    Therefore my degree is worth every penny.
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    I think there's a lot of complaining going on. I pay my tuition fees myself without any support from Student Finance. I'm leaving a top uni with no debt. 'Saddled with debt' seems a little dramatic given that a large majority of people with student finance loans will not pay back the whole sum of the loan over the course of their lifetime. And like @JC mentioned, having a student loan in the UK, is not something most students will have to worry about until they earn enough. It's not like the other types of loans available where you would be actively penalised for not paying your full loan amount back within the given time. Honestly, it's not that big of a deal. It is certainly not 'financial slavery' given that getting a degree increases your earning potential by so much more. However, if your argument was centered around the fact that you wanted to be able to study at uni for free... then that would be a completely different thing. For the price that the unis currently charge, a degree is worth it. I'm sure if most students had to actually pay for their degrees, they would only go to uni if there wasn't another route into their desired careers. I'm not usually a ranter but this tuition fees debate is ridiculous, y'all want to get something for nothing.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    No sweetheart I just don't want to leave uni with a ton of debt. I'm sure students who come from a ghetto area of London like me would agree.

    Problem?
    The debt is irrelevant!

    Yes you will owe money but it's paid back at such a low rate that it's barely noticeable, it's written off after 30 years, and your payments constantly scale with your income so if you have a bad month or year your payments will drop accordingly.

    Do you know what other loans you'll have in your life that are written off after 30 years and whose monthly payments scale with your income? Nothing. You will never have another loan that is as easy to manage as your student loan.
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    My friend pays $60k/year in tuition over in the States...I will happily swallow £36k over 4 years.
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    (Original post by mackemforever)
    It's overpriced is it?

    I'm doing a 4 year degree in Electronic Engineering. I get a loan of £9k per year for tuition fees and approximately £3800 per year in maintenance loans.

    Over the course of my degree I will take on £51,200 worth of debt.

    Working on the average salary progression for graduates in my field, over the 30 years after graduation I will pay a total of just under £50,000 towards my student debt before the remainder and any interest that is built up over the years is written off.

    Now, I graduate at 25 and assuming I work to retirement age of 65 that gives me a 40 year career.

    To make University financially worth it I need to, over the course of my career, earn at least £50,000 more than I would without a degree, because if my career earnings are at least £50,000 more than they would be if I didn't have the degree then even once you have taken into account my student loan payments I am still financially better off.

    Will my degree in Electronic Engineering allow me to earn £1250 more per year than I would be able to without my degree? Of course it will.

    Therefore my degree is worth every penny.
    Even if you factor in circa 3/4 years earning time lost that you could have been stacking shelves at ASDA whilst you are doing a degree the figures still easily stack up, eh?
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    (Original post by mackemforever)
    The debt is irrelevant!

    Yes you will owe money but it's paid back at such a low rate that it's barely noticeable, it's written off after 30 years, and your payments constantly scale with your income so if you have a bad month or year your payments will drop accordingly.

    Do you know what other loans you'll have in your life that are written off after 30 years and whose monthly payments scale with your income? Nothing. You will never have another loan that is as easy to manage as your student loan.

    Other loans easier to manage in your life isn't really the point. The fact is your government isn't investing in its youth like other European nations are. And while its maybe ok looking into the future from where you are now, add in mortgage payments, upkeep of a home, possibly children and the image is perhaps not the financially rosy picture you think it is.
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    (Original post by DougallnDougall)
    Most of he comments on this thread makes me think of turkeys voting for Christmas.
    It's called having a principled position rather than trying to promote your own self-interest.
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    Yup exactly the same, i feel the same way thats why more and more people are getting apprenticeships and other alternative roles
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    (Original post by DougallnDougall)
    Other loans easier to manage in your life isn't really the point. The fact is your government isn't investing in its youth like other European nations are. And while its maybe ok looking into the future from where you are now, add in mortgage payments, upkeep of a home, possibly children and the image is perhaps not the financially rosy picture you think it is.
    You're entirely correct, the financial future for anybody of our generation is pretty horrific, we live in a country where the cost of buying a house is spiralling out of control again, the government is doing bugger all to keep the cost of renting down, so our generation are stuck in a spiral where we can't afford to buy, so we rent, but the rent is so high we can't save any money to enable us to eventually buy!

    However, that doesn't change my opinion that complaining about Student Finance payments is pathetic.

    Over the next 30 years I will pay approximately £50,000 for my degree. Over the next 10 years I will earn at least £50,000 more than I would have without my degree. For me the loan I have taken out for my degree is very much worth the money.

    Even for people who don't go into a high paying career after University, the payments are so low that it doesn't matter.

    Let's say that you do a degree that doesn't really count for anything and you end up going into a minimum wage job earning £15k p/a, you pay back £0 per month.

    Let's bump it up a bit and say you're earning £20k p/a, you'll be paying back a whole £20 per month. Your student loan payments will be less than the cost of one night out, or half a dozen coffees.

    Move it up again to £30k p/a and the payments are now up to £94 per month, but if you can't budget £94 from a £2500 monthly income then quite frankly that's entirely your own fault!

    They payments on student loans are so low relative to income that there is absolutely no reason why anybody should struggle to pay them.
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    The reality I've found in my third is that the tuition fees aren't an immediate problem, its the overdraft and lack of security, I get my final loan soon and it'll be a difficult transition to be self-supporting
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    (Original post by mackemforever)
    You're entirely correct, the financial future for anybody of our generation is pretty horrific, we live in a country where the cost of buying a house is spiralling out of control again, the government is doing bugger all to keep the cost of renting down, so our generation are stuck in a spiral where we can't afford to buy, so we rent, but the rent is so high we can't save any money to enable us to eventually buy!

    However, that doesn't change my opinion that complaining about Student Finance payments is pathetic.

    Over the next 30 years I will pay approximately £50,000 for my degree. Over the next 10 years I will earn at least £50,000 more than I would have without my degree. For me the loan I have taken out for my degree is very much worth the money.

    Even for people who don't go into a high paying career after University, the payments are so low that it doesn't matter.

    Let's say that you do a degree that doesn't really count for anything and you end up going into a minimum wage job earning £15k p/a, you pay back £0 per month.

    Let's bump it up a bit and say you're earning £20k p/a, you'll be paying back a whole £20 per month. Your student loan payments will be less than the cost of one night out, or half a dozen coffees.

    Move it up again to £30k p/a and the payments are now up to £94 per month, but if you can't budget £94 from a £2500 monthly income then quite frankly that's entirely your own fault!

    They payments on student loans are so low relative to income that there is absolutely no reason why anybody should struggle to pay them.
    One of the problems is that the repayment thresholds have now been frozen (instead of rising with inflation or average wages as promised) - while at the same time minimum wage (and living costs) are going up. By 2020 minimum wage on a full time job is expected to approach £18k....at the same time the repayment threshold of £21k for people paying the £9k fees is not moving (with a reasonable possibility that it will be dropped). The gap between minimum income and the point at which you're deemed "wealthy" enough to start repaying is going to narrow and narrow until it disappears.
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    The government doesn't set tuition fees, they set the maximum that universities can charge. When a university charges £9,000 per year for incredibly little contact time, it is doing so because it can. I appreciate they have had their funding reduced but even without any funding, £9,000 seems excessive.

    There is no need, in this day and age, to spend 3 years out of the workforce in a set location. It's also totally at odds with modern careers, where people are expected to work longer, move around and adapt as technology changes things so quickly. People need to be able to dip in and out of education when they need.

    We need a real distance learning alternative to university that is delivered at cost. That might put pressure on universities to deliver value for money for those that do want a campus based course.

    Perhaps all the student unions across the country could pause their self righteous anti-government protests and pressure their own university to do more to keep costs down.
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    No, I like the idea of student debt
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