A Question to Muslims
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Original post by ControversialLad
The 'Moderate' Musims follow most but not all of the commands in the Quran. Killing people for leaving Islam as one such example.
But, ISIS do follow that command, and all of the commands, more commands than the moderates anyway.
So, my question is: Don't ISIS follow the Quran/Allah/Prophet Muhammad better than the other Muslims?
Don't give me the 'if you kill one person, it is as if you've killed the whole of mankind', as that only applied to the children of Arabia at a certain point in time.
But, ISIS do follow that command, and all of the commands, more commands than the moderates anyway.
So, my question is: Don't ISIS follow the Quran/Allah/Prophet Muhammad better than the other Muslims?
Don't give me the 'if you kill one person, it is as if you've killed the whole of mankind', as that only applied to the children of Arabia at a certain point in time.
i'm an atheist but tbh it's only the sunni books that fuel ISIS to do those stuff, other sectors of Islam won't have any radical behaviour affecting third-parties
If someone 1 leaves Islam its not death penalty.
There is major and minor apostasy. Before explaining u know the old testament says whoever worships other Gods besides God of Israel put him 2 death u are aware of that right?
ok there are 2 interpretations 1 is no u dont kill 1 is yes u do so now out of these 2 only 1 can be true both cant since it would be a contradiction.
1. The reason why apostates arent killed because there were apostates in Muhamamds time they wernt put to death .
Al-Bayhaqi reported: Ash-Shafi’ee said, “Some people believed and then committed apostasy and then displayed faith again and the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, did not kill them. Ahmad said: We have narrated this regarding Abdullah ibn Abi Sarh when Satan caused him to stumble and he joined the unbelievers, then he returned to Islam. We have also narrated this regarding another man from the Ansar.”Source: Ma’rifat As-Sunan wal Athar, Kitab Al-Murtad
2. Muhammad said the first 3 generations of Islam are the best . So u have the grandson of Umar ibn Khatab who says
Ma’mar reported: Some residents of the peninsula told me that some people embraced Islam but they did not remain in it very long until they committed apostasy. Maymun ibn Mihran wrote to Umar Ibn Abdul Aziz regarding them and Umar wrote back saying, “Let them return to paying tribute and leave them alone.”Source: Musnaf Abdur Razzaq 18102
3. Quran mentions apostasy people leaving but doesnt prescribe penalty it just says leave them 2 God.
4. Now that hadith there are variations 2 hadiths . As u know hadiths were passed orally so some companions used to put it into their own words or some may forget what Muhamamad actually said but only narrate what they remember. I can show u evidence for this where companions put it into their own words and misunderstood.
U have a hadith which says whoever CHANGES HIS RELIGION AND WAGES WAR kill him
and whoever changes his religion kill him
so 2 narrators . So u only have 2 narrators speaking about apostasy. My interpretation is correct because early Muslims didnt understand it like that.
So apostates arent to be killed just simply for leaving ONly when they leave and wage war.
2ndly Muhammad said whoever kills a non Muslim wont smell heaven.
Ali Muhammads companion said whoever kills a christian must be executed.
Umar ibn khattab 2nd caliph said whoever kills a non muslim i would strike his head off.
So u have the early caliphs condemning terrorism
That verse 5:32 the caliph uthman 3000 yrs later used 5:32 to prove killing is wrong. Montheism was inspired to the children of israel tht doesnt mean montheism isnt inspired to the Muslims . At the end of the day Its inspired by God.
There is major and minor apostasy. Before explaining u know the old testament says whoever worships other Gods besides God of Israel put him 2 death u are aware of that right?
ok there are 2 interpretations 1 is no u dont kill 1 is yes u do so now out of these 2 only 1 can be true both cant since it would be a contradiction.
1. The reason why apostates arent killed because there were apostates in Muhamamds time they wernt put to death .
Al-Bayhaqi reported: Ash-Shafi’ee said, “Some people believed and then committed apostasy and then displayed faith again and the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, did not kill them. Ahmad said: We have narrated this regarding Abdullah ibn Abi Sarh when Satan caused him to stumble and he joined the unbelievers, then he returned to Islam. We have also narrated this regarding another man from the Ansar.”Source: Ma’rifat As-Sunan wal Athar, Kitab Al-Murtad
2. Muhammad said the first 3 generations of Islam are the best . So u have the grandson of Umar ibn Khatab who says
Ma’mar reported: Some residents of the peninsula told me that some people embraced Islam but they did not remain in it very long until they committed apostasy. Maymun ibn Mihran wrote to Umar Ibn Abdul Aziz regarding them and Umar wrote back saying, “Let them return to paying tribute and leave them alone.”Source: Musnaf Abdur Razzaq 18102
3. Quran mentions apostasy people leaving but doesnt prescribe penalty it just says leave them 2 God.
4. Now that hadith there are variations 2 hadiths . As u know hadiths were passed orally so some companions used to put it into their own words or some may forget what Muhamamad actually said but only narrate what they remember. I can show u evidence for this where companions put it into their own words and misunderstood.
U have a hadith which says whoever CHANGES HIS RELIGION AND WAGES WAR kill him
and whoever changes his religion kill him
so 2 narrators . So u only have 2 narrators speaking about apostasy. My interpretation is correct because early Muslims didnt understand it like that.
So apostates arent to be killed just simply for leaving ONly when they leave and wage war.
2ndly Muhammad said whoever kills a non Muslim wont smell heaven.
Ali Muhammads companion said whoever kills a christian must be executed.
Umar ibn khattab 2nd caliph said whoever kills a non muslim i would strike his head off.
So u have the early caliphs condemning terrorism
That verse 5:32 the caliph uthman 3000 yrs later used 5:32 to prove killing is wrong. Montheism was inspired to the children of israel tht doesnt mean montheism isnt inspired to the Muslims . At the end of the day Its inspired by God.
Yes that is very true. In Islam it is forbidden to kill someone who is innocent.
Original post by haj101
ISIS takes the Quranic verses out of context and they mix their culture with religion.
Original post by SaraBZ
Yes that is very true. In Islam it is forbidden to kill someone who is innocent.
There's much disagreement both within Islam and between Islam and secularism as to who counts as 'innocent', as I explained in an earlier post. Many of the innocent people whom the Islamic State (IS) executes, such as homosexuals, are not considered 'innocent' in most interpretations of Islam, let alone the conservative one followed by the IS.
Original post by muzi123
Before explaining u know the old testament says whoever worships other Gods besides God of Israel put him 2 death u are aware of that right?
I am aware of that. Why are you prefacing your explanation with this? The faults of the Old Testament of the Bible don't mitigate or excuse the faults of the Koran (or any other holy book, for that matter).
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Hydeman
There's much disagreement both within Islam and between Islam and secularism as to who counts as 'innocent', as I explained in an earlier post. Many of the innocent people whom the Islamic State (IS) executes, such as homosexuals, are not considered 'innocent' in most interpretations of Islam, let alone the conservative one followed by the IS.
I am aware of that. Why are you prefacing your explanation with this? The faults of the Old Testament of the Bible don't mitigate or excuse the faults of the Koran (or any other holy book, for that matter).
I am aware of that. Why are you prefacing your explanation with this? The faults of the Old Testament of the Bible don't mitigate or excuse the faults of the Koran (or any other holy book, for that matter).
wHAT IM saying is u cant be a hyporcrite and attack Islam u hav 2 b consistent and attack Judaism and Christianity for they have similar laws.
I am Muslims and I believe in live and let live.
Original post by muzi123
wHAT IM saying is u cant be a hyporcrite and attack Islam u hav 2 b consistent and attack Judaism and Christianity for they have similar laws.
'Attacking' Islam instead of Judaism and Christianity on a thread about Islam isn't hypocrisy; it's staying on-topic.
I do plenty of 'attacking' the other Abrahamic myths where they are being discussed. And as it happens, Judaism and Christianity have largely managed to move away from literalism and are usually able to disregard the violent passages in the name of 'context' or 'interpretation.'
Islam, however, is a different story: it insists that its holy book is the direct word of God (a claim not made by most Christians and Jews of the Bible) and is not only unaltered since the time of its original revelation (which is demonstrably untrue) but that it is unalterable. Writing off the same commandments in Islam is considerably difficult because of this widespread belief in literalism and the idea that the Koran is divinely protected from revisionism.
Original post by ControversialLad
The 'Moderate' Musims follow most but not all of the commands in the Quran. Killing people for leaving Islam as one such example.
But, ISIS do follow that command, and all of the commands, more commands than the moderates anyway.
So, my question is: Don't ISIS follow the Quran/Allah/Prophet Muhammad better than the other Muslims?
Don't give me the 'if you kill one person, it is as if you've killed the whole of mankind', as that only applied to the children of Arabia at a certain point in time.
But, ISIS do follow that command, and all of the commands, more commands than the moderates anyway.
So, my question is: Don't ISIS follow the Quran/Allah/Prophet Muhammad better than the other Muslims?
Don't give me the 'if you kill one person, it is as if you've killed the whole of mankind', as that only applied to the children of Arabia at a certain point in time.
Okay so you already know about this, Let me give you another example.... I saw a mother crying coz her daughter went to join ISIS without them knowing about this.... How comes you make you mum or someone mum sad...being a Muslim, theirs a huge responsibility to respect you parents and follow what they say... what ISIS is doing is spreading the wrong message and doing the wrong things... coz of the tribal division and cultures people have divided Islam and say what they like to say and what is beneficial for them...
The answer would be no they don’t. Because the prophet did not encourage killing, the Quran only has contextual facts on killing and Allah does not condemn killing. Muslims are not allowed to harm another being, punish or judge them. That is Gods job. Isis take things out of hand and majority of Isis members probably don’t even carry out the compulsory acts such as prayer, fast, charity ect so how can you expect them to repapresnt Islam. They think they know what their doing but their not. And they kill Muslims So that’s just says a lot about them.
Original post by ControversialLad
The 'Moderate' Musims follow most but not all of the commands in the Quran. Killing people for leaving Islam as one such example.
But, ISIS do follow that command, and all of the commands, more commands than the moderates anyway.
So, my question is: Don't ISIS follow the Quran/Allah/Prophet Muhammad better than the other Muslims?
Don't give me the 'if you kill one person, it is as if you've killed the whole of mankind', as that only applied to the children of Arabia at a certain point in time.
But, ISIS do follow that command, and all of the commands, more commands than the moderates anyway.
So, my question is: Don't ISIS follow the Quran/Allah/Prophet Muhammad better than the other Muslims?
Don't give me the 'if you kill one person, it is as if you've killed the whole of mankind', as that only applied to the children of Arabia at a certain point in time.
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