Unemployed with a first class degree
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Original post by Princepieman
There generally isn't.
The graduates themselves are the ones who chart their own destiny. Whether you did English or Engineering, if you don't seek out the opportunities to improve your CV whilst at uni, you'll get rejected. A Physics degree by itself isn't going to do much help without any experience to accompany it.
So really the takeaway is: start thinking about how you can improve your profile/CV from the moment you step on campus because if you don't someone else while and they'll be the person out-competing you for an interview slot.
The same goes to the people asking 'what university?', it won't make any material difference.
Posted from TSR Mobile
The graduates themselves are the ones who chart their own destiny. Whether you did English or Engineering, if you don't seek out the opportunities to improve your CV whilst at uni, you'll get rejected. A Physics degree by itself isn't going to do much help without any experience to accompany it.
So really the takeaway is: start thinking about how you can improve your profile/CV from the moment you step on campus because if you don't someone else while and they'll be the person out-competing you for an interview slot.
The same goes to the people asking 'what university?', it won't make any material difference.
Posted from TSR Mobile
This is just not true and very misleading for students on this site. There are large difference in chances of getting a professional job, starting salary, and career earnings depending on where you went and what you studied (correlations mind you). Of course experience is important too.
Have a glance over: www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/.../Earnings-by-Degrees-REPORT.pdf
Walker, I., & Zhu, Y. (2013). The impact of university degrees on the lifecycle of earnings: some further analysis. Department for Business Innovation and Skills. [available at: http://tinyurl.com/khzwaw7]
Walker, I., & Zhu, Y. (2010). Differences by degree: Evidence of the Net Financial Rates of Return to Undergraduate Study for England and Wales. IZA Discussion Paper #5254 [available at: http://ftp.iza.org/dp5254.pdf]
Original post by chazwomaq
This is just not true and very misleading for students on this site. There are large difference in chances of getting a professional job, starting salary, and career earnings depending on where you went and what you studied (correlations mind you). Of course experience is important too.
Have a glance over: www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/.../Earnings-by-Degrees-REPORT.pdf
Walker, I., & Zhu, Y. (2013). The impact of university degrees on the lifecycle of earnings: some further analysis. Department for Business Innovation and Skills. [available at: http://tinyurl.com/khzwaw7]
Walker, I., & Zhu, Y. (2010). Differences by degree: Evidence of the Net Financial Rates of Return to Undergraduate Study for England and Wales. IZA Discussion Paper #5254 [available at: http://ftp.iza.org/dp5254.pdf]
Have a glance over: www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/.../Earnings-by-Degrees-REPORT.pdf
Walker, I., & Zhu, Y. (2013). The impact of university degrees on the lifecycle of earnings: some further analysis. Department for Business Innovation and Skills. [available at: http://tinyurl.com/khzwaw7]
Walker, I., & Zhu, Y. (2010). Differences by degree: Evidence of the Net Financial Rates of Return to Undergraduate Study for England and Wales. IZA Discussion Paper #5254 [available at: http://ftp.iza.org/dp5254.pdf]
Answered like a true uni student, with references and everything hahaha
Tell me since when does correlation = causation?
Just because you see numbers indicating you're 'likely' to get a job doesn't mean you can sit back, do nothing and expect a job to land on your lap.
FYI, experience is THE most important factor - it's not 'also important'.
Original post by Princepieman
Answered like a true uni student, with references and everything hahaha
Tell me since when does correlation = causation?
Tell me since when does correlation = causation?
As I mentioned already, it doesn't...
But it's pretty plausible that engineers from the RG are more likely to get a higher paying professional job than an art graduate from London Met, no?
Just because you see numbers indicating you're 'likely' to get a job doesn't mean you can sit back, do nothing and expect a job to land on your lap.
Nobody's saying that.
FYI, experience is THE most important factor - it's not 'also important'.
Answered like a true armchair expert with no evidence.
Original post by Princepieman
Just because you see numbers indicating you're 'likely' to get a job doesn't mean you can sit back, do nothing and expect a job to land on your lap.
Just because you see numbers indicating you're 'likely' to get a job doesn't mean you can sit back, do nothing and expect a job to land on your lap.
This is the key point here.
It's not that your degree isn't important, it's just that it isn't sufficient in itself for anything. People really need to realise that. The amount of people I see on here who blame the system because, after going through university doing nothing whatsoever to develop their CVs, they can't get a decent job is ridiculous.
Original post by Princepieman
There generally isn't.
The graduates themselves are the ones who chart their own destiny. Whether you did English or Engineering, if you don't seek out the opportunities to improve your CV whilst at uni, you'll get rejected. A Physics degree by itself isn't going to do much help without any experience to accompany it.
So really the takeaway is: start thinking about how you can improve your profile/CV from the moment you step on campus because if you don't someone else while and they'll be the person out-competing you for an interview slot.
The same goes to the people asking 'what university?', it won't make any material difference.
Posted from TSR Mobile
The graduates themselves are the ones who chart their own destiny. Whether you did English or Engineering, if you don't seek out the opportunities to improve your CV whilst at uni, you'll get rejected. A Physics degree by itself isn't going to do much help without any experience to accompany it.
So really the takeaway is: start thinking about how you can improve your profile/CV from the moment you step on campus because if you don't someone else while and they'll be the person out-competing you for an interview slot.
The same goes to the people asking 'what university?', it won't make any material difference.
Posted from TSR Mobile
might do e.g. if you're choosing between a uni with a year in industry and one without... not in the familiar TSR sense of being obsessed about 12 ranking positions though.
agreed about the CV point though, for people starting uni you need to be planning and acting to improve that all the way through from year one.
You don't need a CV that's 'good enough' - you need one that's better than the ones you're competing against
Original post by chazwomaq
As I mentioned already, it doesn't...
But it's pretty plausible that engineers from the RG are more likely to get a higher paying professional job than an art graduate from London Met, no?
But it's pretty plausible that engineers from the RG are more likely to get a higher paying professional job than an art graduate from London Met, no?
Not if the engineer from the RG uni has no people skills and zero experience whilst the Art grad does. A degree, is essentially a tick box for employers to even begin looking at your application - the rest of it better stack up or else it's in the bin it goes.
I'm not saying that the degree you do doesn't affect your chances, I'm just saying that the effect is rather nullified if there's nothing else to beef up your profile.
70% of grad jobs don't specify a degree subject requirement - you better bet your bottom dollar that recruiters for those jobs will favour tangible experience over the one line of your CV with your credentials on it...
Original post by Joinedup
might do e.g. if you're choosing between a uni with a year in industry and one without... not in the familiar TSR sense of being obsessed about 12 ranking positions though.
agreed about the CV point though, for people starting uni you need to be planning and acting to improve that all the way through from year one.
You don't need a CV that's 'good enough' - you need one that's better than the ones you're competing against
agreed about the CV point though, for people starting uni you need to be planning and acting to improve that all the way through from year one.
You don't need a CV that's 'good enough' - you need one that's better than the ones you're competing against
Hahahah, yeah, that's a fair point.
Original post by Bath_Student
Which uni was it if I may ask?
Spoiler
Original post by chazwomaq
Answered like a true armchair expert with no evidence.
Answered like a true armchair expert with no evidence.
Walk into any recruitment consultants' office, internal HR office or even ask any hiring manager about their preferences and I 100% guarantee that experience and extracurricular involvement will rank at the top.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/leading-employers-prefer-work-experience-over-grades-says-new-research-10286829.html
Original post by Princepieman
I'm not saying that the degree you do doesn't affect your chances, I'm just saying that the effect is rather nullified if there's nothing else to beef up your profile.
That's exactly what you said!
Original post by chazwomaq
There are huge differences in employability and earnings across degrees. Physics does very well. You and the OP may just be outliers, and we should be very wary about drawing conclusions from outliers.
Original post by Princepieman
There generally isn't.
The same goes to the people asking 'what university?', it won't make any material difference.
Posted from TSR Mobile
The same goes to the people asking 'what university?', it won't make any material difference.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Is it just coincidence that STEM graduates from selective universities are more likely to be employed and earn so much more? Perhaps they just have much better people skills or are better at getting experience?
Original post by chazwomaq
Is it just coincidence that STEM graduates from selective universities are more likely to be employed and earn so much more? Perhaps they just have much better people skills or are better at getting experience?
Is it just coincidence that STEM graduates from selective universities are more likely to be employed and earn so much more? Perhaps they just have much better people skills or are better at getting experience?
They tend to be more motivated students who seek out opportunities. Simple as that. There is a pretty strong correlation between working hard to gain top grades and a student's drive/ambition to do well in their careers. All of which is inherent to the student themselves and not a result of the institutions where they study.
We can thus flip the situation around and say that some top companies (i.e. the ones that pay higher than average salaries) target top universities because the students themselves are on average of a higher quality (including drive, ambition, work ethic in here) than others. That's not to say someone who exhibits the exact same attributes but falls out of that sphere will be disregarded - of course not, they'll be given the exact same chance.
My issue with the way you're framing your argument is that you feel the numbers are indicative of some intrinsic advantage going to an RG uni gives you - when really it's the students themselves that have the advantage, even before they set foot on campus.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Princepieman
They tend to be more motivated students who seek out opportunities. Simple as that.
There you go Post 92 students, you know what's wrong with you. You just don't try hard enough!
My issue with the way you're framing your argument is that you feel the numbers are indicative of some intrinsic advantage going to an RG uni gives you - when really it's the students themselves that have the advantage, even before they set foot on campus.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
You're right that selectivity of uni is a proxy for quality of candidate. But a clever student going to a less selective uni is running the risk of being overlooked by being compared to the (less clever) classmate who gets a 2.1 rather than the equally clever colleague who went to the higher ranked uni and got the 2.1.
But you're wrong on degree type. That makes a big difference. There is nothing the arts graduate can do to get the job in science, medicine, engineering etc except get a new degree.
Original post by chazwomaq
I hope the smiley at the end indicates sarcasm.
There are huge differences in employability and earnings across degrees. Physics does very well. You and the OP may just be outliers, and we should be very wary about drawing conclusions from outliers.
There are huge differences in employability and earnings across degrees. Physics does very well. You and the OP may just be outliers, and we should be very wary about drawing conclusions from outliers.
I've been an outlier all my life
Original post by hamoncheese
*edit*
- Where can I learn java, javascript, CSS, HTML etc
- Where can I learn java, javascript, CSS, HTML etc
BACK ONCE AGAIN WITH THE JAVASCRIPT MASTER
never fear buddy, if you wanna learn javascript and HTML and CSS (the web stuff) then I recommend CodeAcademy for the basics.. then you wanna take it to the max with server-side technology like AJAX (youtube tutorials) or my favourite: Node.js (youtube tutorials)
Node.js is quite new but it runs all the massive websites and it's growing fast. The fact that its only a few years old means not many people have more experience than you and there's quite a few tutorials on youtube.
As for Java you can just youtube search "Java Tutorial" Theres thousands of em!
however don't get a book on Java because most of them suck if amazon reviews mean anything.
If you wanna have fun with Java then I'd make Android apps rather than Desktop Apps (Both use Java but different platforms) download Android Studio and look up basic android tutorials on youtube..
Then when you build your skills up look out for coding conventions where you get 24 hours to build something fancy. This should help you make connections to get a job and build your portfolio.
Also check out open-source projects that you can contribute to.
P.S when i say youtube tutorials, I assume you dont have a lynda.com account. It's not too cheap but it's really good because the people who give tutorials on Lynda are EXPERTS unlike the people on youtube who are often just semi-pro.
Best of luck buddy!
[video="youtube;xd93uI0EcgI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd93uI0EcgI[/video]
Original post by Joinedup
might do e.g. if you're choosing between a uni with a year in industry and one without... not in the familiar TSR sense of being obsessed about 12 ranking positions though.
agreed about the CV point though, for people starting uni you need to be planning and acting to improve that all the way through from year one.
You don't need a CV that's 'good enough' - you need one that's better than the ones you're competing against
agreed about the CV point though, for people starting uni you need to be planning and acting to improve that all the way through from year one.
You don't need a CV that's 'good enough' - you need one that's better than the ones you're competing against
So like only 5 people get jobs? Average people clearly get jobs. The ones who are better than average are better than the average because the average exists. If you get what I mean.
I'm so far down the pile I can't even get lab stock jobs.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
So like only 5 people get jobs? Average people clearly get jobs. The ones who are better than average are better than the average because the average exists. If you get what I mean.
I'm so far down the pile I can't even get lab stock jobs.
I'm so far down the pile I can't even get lab stock jobs.
Perhaps overall 'average people' do get jobs, but you cannot present yourself as the 'average candidate' for any given position or you will certainly be rejected. You have to present yourself as ideal, and you have to appear more suitable than the others applying for the particular position.
Since this has become a thread about the factors that are relevant in getting careers, and you've brought up your own position twice, I'm going to break from the usual pattern of my responses to you and offer a couple of what I hope will be constructive thoughts. If you don't find it helpful I hope what I'm saying is at least relevant to the discussion that's going on anyway.
If I were you I would seek help from people on the careers forum, and find someone to look over some of my applications. A large part of making a successful application is the effective use of framing and spin (more so for application forms, a little less so if your CV is the major part of the application). You need some experience to talk about, as emphasised above, but you can make a little experience go a long way in terms of the skills you can demonstrate if you can present it and talk about it effectively. If you're getting rejected from jobs that similarly qualified and experienced people have shown themselves able to get you're probably going wrong at the application stage.
In the meantime, if you're not already, you should volunteer, perhaps for a charity or otherwise, well, anything. You follow politics: why don't you take part in a campaign? The EU referendum is coming up, and there will be space for you to get involved in that whichever side you're on. As others have been saying, the real-world experience you can put on your CV is crucial, and periods of just being out of work without developing any skills do not look good. Even if you're only applying for work that you consider very basic, if you volunteer to do some drudgery that at least shows that you're willing to do it and stick with it, and that you don't think you're above it. Your experience does not need to be directly relevant to the role you're applying for to be helpful.
Incidentally, whilst it's understandable, the pessimistic attitude you display ITT must not seep through into any application process, whether on paper or in interview. If you're seeking to convince someone to trust you with any sort of task you need to seem at ease with it and confident that you can deal with all aspects of it.
(edited 8 years ago)
I think something that hasn't been emphasized in this thread is that it is completely and utterly a numbers game..
How many places have you applied to?
If its not 200+ then I don't really think you have anything to say. Put yourself and your cv (which may need a bit of work) out there.
How many places have you applied to?
If its not 200+ then I don't really think you have anything to say. Put yourself and your cv (which may need a bit of work) out there.
Original post by Sabster
I think something that hasn't been emphasized in this thread is that it is completely and utterly a numbers game..
How many places have you applied to?
If its not 200+ then I don't really think you have anything to say. Put yourself and your cv (which may need a bit of work) out there.
How many places have you applied to?
If its not 200+ then I don't really think you have anything to say. Put yourself and your cv (which may need a bit of work) out there.
Afraid I disagree. It's about quality not quantity- doesn't matter how many applications you send out, if there is something 'wrong' with them then they aren't going to get you very far. Equally a handful of strong applications will be far more likely to result in interviews.
Original post by jelly1000
Afraid I disagree. It's about quality not quantity- doesn't matter how many applications you send out, if there is something 'wrong' with them then they aren't going to get you very far. Equally a handful of strong applications will be far more likely to result in interviews.
I couldn't disgaree more - as someone who has/had offers from large IBs and top tier strategy consulting firms it is all about the numbers game - recruiting is hard and there is a lot of luck involved.
(I applied to a complete spectrum of places (all top tier HFs etc) this year and got interviews in every sector without tailoring my CV very much if at all, similar thing with cover letter).
Obviously this is assuming you haven't massively ****ed up your CV.
Original post by Sabster
I couldn't disgaree more - as someone who has/had offers from large IBs and top tier strategy consulting firms it is all about the numbers game - recruiting is hard and there is a lot of luck involved.
(I applied to a complete spectrum of places (all top tier HFs etc) this year and got interviews in every sector without tailoring my CV very much if at all, similar thing with cover letter).
Obviously this is assuming you haven't massively ****ed up your CV.
(I applied to a complete spectrum of places (all top tier HFs etc) this year and got interviews in every sector without tailoring my CV very much if at all, similar thing with cover letter).
Obviously this is assuming you haven't massively ****ed up your CV.
You've just proved my point though- have a strong application and you don't need to make that many before you get interviews. I got an interview for only the second job I applied for.
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