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Is it rape if you don't want it to be? watch

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    (Original post by nrb17)
    I'm not a guy.
    I don't know to me the end result matters since there was no consent saying no or yes for that matter. Someone saying stop. Is for the moment or at least can be perceived that way.
    Go and read up the law on rape and you will see that if at the ime of penetration it was non consensual, then its rape plain and simple. The fact you might both have climaxed is irrelevant. Its what the law says that matters,
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    (Original post by nrb17)
    Uh no I was just giving information about the background of this situation that's all.
    I apologise for my strong statement, but the information was irrelevant. It concerns me that you included it because you must have thought it might be material.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Then you cannot rape in English law (not even if you used a strap-on) and your charge would be sexual assault.
    I think you got it backwards there. I'm not talking about lesbian sex obviously as I mentioned birth control. Women can't get women pregnant. You're now completely confusing me here.
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    (Original post by Elise213)
    just because you're drunk doesn't mean all your senses have left your body. technically it is rape. if there is no consent or if it isn't a yes then you're in trouble... as it should rightfully be.


    Yeah that's why I feel like both people were drunk that doesn't mean they raped themselves. That souns absurd to me.
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    (Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes)
    If it's consensual role playing then fine...whatever gets you going, but if it isn't then it's disgusting.
    Don't think I'm advocating it. I hate the actuality of it, but the essence of it is hot.
    Yeah, I agree.
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    (Original post by nrb17)
    I think you got it backwards there. I'm not talking about lesbian sex obviously as I mentioned birth control. Women can't get women pregnant. You're now completely confusing me here.
    Good point, in that case you are completely confusing me too. Are you a guy or not?
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Absolutely not, you cannot define what is and isn't rape based on your feelings days later. In the moment there was a sexual assault because she said no and you continued.

    Her feelings about it will govern whether she, if it came to it, wanted to report the assault and/or bring charges. The present discussion assumes that the matter has been brought before a court, who decide whether an offence was committed, not whether she would be vindicated if you were punished.

    However I'm sure her feelings would be presented as circumstantial evidence in the case for the defence.
    Uh no the problem is if someone else wants to make a case of it. As that wasn't the end of it. Because I ended up getting pregnant and now have to tell parents. But my parents are really stupid so I wouldn't put it past them.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Good point, in that case you are completely confusing me too. Are you a guy or not?
    no I'm a woman.
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    double post
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Go and read up the law on rape and you will see that if at the ime of penetration it was non consensual, then its rape plain and simple. The fact you might both have climaxed is irrelevant. Its what the law says that matters,
    for me it does matter because I feel like at the end of the situation I was satisfied despite not wanting to do it in a sense I wanted to as well obviously.
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    It was rape if no consent was given, it does seem less severe than a violent struggle though, which is what a lot of people think rape is, and if she did climax she must have enjoyed it because otherwise she would have been too tight and uncomfortable, if one leaves feeling satisfied and files no complaint is it even a breach of civil relations?
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    (Original post by nrb17)
    Uh no the problem is if someone else wants to make a case of it. As that wasn't the end of it. Because I ended up getting pregnant and now have to tell parents. But my parents are really stupid so I wouldn't put it past them.
    Yes, I'm pretty sure your parents could sue on your behalf if you are under 18. However why do you need to tell them about the manner in which it was conceived? If you don't see it as rape and aren't bothered by it simply don't mention it.

    Will you have the baby or consider an abortion?

    (Original post by whorace)
    It was rape if no consent was given, it does seem less severe than a violent struggle though, which is what a lot of people think rape is, and if she did climax she must have enjoyed it because otherwise she would have been too tight and uncomfortable, if one leaves feeling satisfied and files no complaint is it even a breach of civil relations?
    It is rape as the facts have been presented to us although it would not be provable in court. According to her testimony rape occurred whether or not charges were filed, like in football you can be flagged for being in an offside position but if the ref doesn't think it has any bearing on the gameplay he won't blow up.
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    (Original post by samina_ay)
    Rape is unconsented sex, so if you feel like you didn't give another man/female permission to touch you sexually - then its rape. But your situation is a mess. Why is the girl drunk when shes only 17? Hmm. Don't do it if you can't handle it.
    Legally it's only rape if a man penetrates a woman - everything else is just sexual assault

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    I'd say it is.

    Tough luck proving that in court though.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    That is where s1(1)(c) could apply "A does not reasonably believe that B consents" and this is why I would say previous behaviour is relevant.
    OP states that person B said 'stop'. Unless this was during pre-agreed role-play, saying 'stop' means there is no consent. As long as A heard 'stop', A cannot 'reasonably believe' B consented. Previous behaviour is not relevant. Having sex with someone once/ten times/a hundred times previously doesn't change that everyone involved has to consent for it to be sex rather than sexual assault or rape.

    (Original post by Jebedee)
    Are women so feeble-minded in your eyes that they can't even be allowed to handle the responsibility of being able to answer for themselves without having to be second-guessed or mindread?
    Huh? It's not a gender thing. If Person 1 wants to have sex with Person 2 and Person 2 says they don't want sex right now/ever/that specific kind of sex etc. then Person 1 MUST respect that and not keep asking to 'convince' Person 2.

    (Original post by nrb17)
    I'm confused and I know this is off topic but why does your username say you're a girl but your gender sign says you're a guy?

    Uh well that's what it was but ok.

    I know pressure is one thing but it's not a crime to pressure someone I don't believe. And plus I'd rather see it as not rape. Which is why my title says what it says.
    Pressuring someone negates consent. So if one person does not give consent and is then pressured to 'consent' and then whatever that person had originally not consented to occurs then that is sexual assault or rape and a crime has be committed. Are you either of the people in this situation?

    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    This is far too much.

    1. An excuse is what you give when you would like to do something but cannot, or at least want to give that impression. Therefore to the literal-minded person an excuse would actually constitute evidence that she might want to have sex if the circumstances could be made correct.

    2. It would appear that the "convincing" consisted mainly in suggesting non-procreative sexual acts. It is not up to you to decide a priori that this was unacceptably coercive, coercion in all things being a matter of degree. THis is doubly so because there is nothing to suggest he had a superior negotiating position from which to coerce her.

    Assuming that any negotiation on having sex must be coercive, presumably by invoking some nonsensical "patriarchy" narrative, quickly becomes absurd. Otherwise literally anything a man did, such as brag about his car, pay for a taxi to his place, invite the woman in, whisper seductive words in her ear, could be defined as coercion, as I'm sure some feminists want.
    But we talk about 'making excuses' when we refer to things we should do or have an obligation to do but really don't want to do e.g. 'I should go to my cousin's wedding but I don't want to, can we find an excuse?'; 'You're just making excuses not to clean the bathroom, it's your turn'; 'I can't write my essay until my room is spotless' 'You're making excuses, you need to study'. We do not need to give any reason why we don't want to have sex with a certain person/at a certain time/in a certain way/ever. And any reasons anyone chooses to give are valid and enough. No matter what anyone else thinks.

    Someone saying 'I'm not interested tonight' and then being asked about a long list of other sexual acts that they might want to do seems like pressuring. Coercion is when someone says 'no' or 'stop' or is clearly not wanting to have any kind of sex and they are asked until they say 'yes' because they know that the other person won't stop asking. Coercion and pressure is when one person thinks that they can 'persuade' another person to 'change their mind' and so keeps asking or suggesting. Respect someone's lack of consent.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Yes, I'm pretty sure your parents could sue on your behalf if you are under 18. However why do you need to tell them about the manner in which it was conceived? If you don't see it as rape and aren't bothered by it simply don't mention it.

    Will you have the baby or consider an abortion?



    It is rape as the facts have been presented to us although it would not be provable in court. According to her testimony rape occurred whether or not charges were filed, like in football you can be flagged for being in an offside position but if the ref doesn't think it has any bearing on the gameplay he won't blow up.
    I told someone else not my parents about the whole ordeal and how I was worried if I got pregnant from the situation. The thing is the person I told and my parents will be really really really mad if they find out I was involved with him and having his kid. So I mean they could use that against me. In part that is a bit of why I was asking. If I could tell parents without having an issue with them going after him on a legal level. We're both 17.

    Yeah so they basically couldn't get anywhere with reporting it. Also no I prefer adoption over abortion. But I am not sure. I am 50-50 on parenting v. adoption honestly. All depends on if I get a job when I graduate and get a good job at that.
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    Rape is if you don't give any consent. That's it really
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    (Original post by nrb17)
    Curious if anyone knows legally if two people are hooking up. They aren't dating. And they end dating other people. But during the time they hook up they had consensual encounters before and after. One of the time they are drunk at a party and didn't take her bcp and doesn't want to do it. But doesn't neccesarily say no. Like she made excuses but he kind of persisted. He convinced her to let him just do stuff other than sex. And at first she said stop but during she didn't and they both ended up climaxing but she never actually gave permission to have intercourse. But later they hooked up even after that a few times. Would this be legally rape or no? Even if she rather not see it that way. Also they're both 17.
    If he penetrated her when she said no and clearly didn't want it then, yes it is rape. If she made out like she didn't want it when her actions said that she did then no, it may not be rape. It may be classed as implied consent.

    Implied consent means that if she didn't act against it or if her actions imply consent then she consented to the sex. If she's kissing him and touching him and into it then she's consenting with her actions.

    If she changes her mind and decides that she wanted it then no it's not rape. People can change their minds without saying so. If she says no then changes her mind after a bit then it is consensual. Him persuading her into sex isn't rape unless he forces her.

    Also, if she doesn't have any problems with what happened and doesn't believe that it was rape then it wasn't. If she consents after it took place that she wanted it to happen or is happy that it happened then her consent to the deed is given.

    If there's no penetration at all then it can't be rape, it's sexual assault. The legal definition means that penetration has to occur.
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    (Original post by nrb17)
    I told someone else not my parents about the whole ordeal and how I was worried if I got pregnant from the situation. The thing is the person I told and my parents will be really really really mad if they find out I was involved with him and having his kid. So I mean they could use that against me. In part that is a bit of why I was asking. If I could tell parents without having an issue with them going after him on a legal level. We're both 17.

    Yeah so they basically couldn't get anywhere with reporting it. Also no I prefer adoption over abortion. But I am not sure. I am 50-50 on parenting v. adoption honestly. All depends on if I get a job when I graduate and get a good job at that.
    If you raise the baby still go to university. In general they have excellent support, financial and logistical, plus you even retain entitlements to state benefits including housing benefit. Plus it will not disrupt your career too much if the baby can be off to pre-school by the time you graduate.

    Giving a baby away for adoption once you have pushed it out is incredibly hard to do I would imagine. It sounds like far and away the best idea but you might not be able to do it in the moment. Probably best to seek advice from actual mothers. Your decision now will have moment for the rest of your life, long after any silly thoughts about parents suing and feuding are past.

    Your parents would not be able to sue for two reasons: one, as far as I know, rape is a criminal matter which is prosecuted by the Crown - all they can do is report it to the police; and two, your/their claim will be airily dismissed either by the police (although one hopes not because that is a bad attitude to take towards rape victims) or by the CPS. The reason for this is it is patently impossible to prove anything in this case.
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    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    OP states that person B said 'stop'. Unless this was during pre-agreed role-play, saying 'stop' means there is no consent. As long as A heard 'stop', A cannot 'reasonably believe' B consented. Previous behaviour is not relevant. Having sex with someone once/ten times/a hundred times previously doesn't change that everyone involved has to consent for it to be sex rather than sexual assault or rape.
    Why the platitudes? I know this (psst, everyone does!), even expressed it myself.



    Huh? It's not a gender thing. If Person 1 wants to have sex with Person 2 and Person 2 says they don't want sex right now/ever/that specific kind of sex etc. then Person 1 MUST respect that and not keep asking to 'convince' Person 2.



    Pressuring someone negates consent. So if one person does not give consent and is then pressured to 'consent' and then whatever that person had originally not consented to occurs then that is sexual assault or rape and a crime has be committed. Are you either of the people in this situation?



    But we talk about 'making excuses' when we refer to things we should do or have an obligation to do but really don't want to do e.g. 'I should go to my cousin's wedding but I don't want to, can we find an excuse?'; 'You're just making excuses not to clean the bathroom, it's your turn'; 'I can't write my essay until my room is spotless' 'You're making excuses, you need to study'. We do not need to give any reason why we don't want to have sex with a certain person/at a certain time/in a certain way/ever. And any reasons anyone chooses to give are valid and enough. No matter what anyone else thinks.
    Semantics really. You err on the side of accusation - that is, the wrong side.

    Of course there is no need to explain oneself, but it is quite natural for someone to do so. If my girlfriend wants a shag and I don’t want one I will generally say why, and vice versa, it would be weird not to. In fact if you don't explain yourself you run the risk of the girl getting insecure and saying/thinking "boo hoo he makes me feel ugly why doesn't he want me omg he must be cheating".

    Someone saying 'I'm not interested tonight' and then being asked about a long list of other sexual acts that they might want to do seems like pressuring. Coercion is when someone says 'no' or 'stop' or is clearly not wanting to have any kind of sex and they are asked until they say 'yes' because they know that the other person won't stop asking. Coercion and pressure is when one person thinks that they can 'persuade' another person to 'change their mind' and so keeps asking or suggesting. Respect someone's lack of consent.
    You have literally no information more than I do about what happened in this case and there is nothing to suggest coercion. Coercion is a matter of degree. You say "pressure negates consent" - FAR too black and white.

    Your natural stance is to assume a rape must have occurred, to see rape everywhere.

    We are far into the realm of speculation, but even "a list of alternative sexual acts" would be "blowjob, eat you out, hand shandy" probably. Hardly a long or onerous list... and an entirely normal negotiation to have when someone doesn’t want to have sex because they haven't taken their pill, as opposed to not wanting sex itself.

    You also define coercion wrongly. Coercion involves leveraging an advantage. Pressuring someone is what you are describing; although again this is a semantic wankathon now.
 
 
 
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