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    (Original post by Emperor Trajan)
    but you won't likely get condemnation of Islamic scripture, that give rise to such beliefs and existence of groups like ISIS.
    You are correct, but that merely demonstrates (a) the iniquity of Islam itself and its outdated rules and mores, and (b) the need for more Moslems to do so, to make it the norm among Moslems (at least those living in civilised countries).
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    (Original post by Emperor Trajan)
    Then you'll face quite a struggle don't you think?

    Cultural Muslims (possibly the majority, or atleast here in Britain) and progressive Muslims will perhaps provide some distance from, what's considered to be reprehensible beliefs, via in denial or silence, when these beliefs are brought up. Possibly due to fear of condemnation, ostracization of themselves and accusations of "Apostate", from fellow Muslims, usually more religious/conservative Muslims. (They don't want to be dislike like Maajid)

    Likely the more religious/conservative Muslims will be very reluctant to condemn and oppose the parts of Islamic scripture, viewed by many non-muslims (and some Muslims) to be reprehensible and responsible for the existence of groups like ISIS, Boko haram, Al Shabab etc and their beliefs and actions.

    You only need to go to the ISOC and bring the topic of vocal apostasy, homosexuality, enslavement of men, women and children, sex slavery, cruel and unusual punishments etc, to either face denial or apologetics ready at hand.

    There's a saying, "Man can't make haram what Allah has made halal". To condemn and oppose Islamic scripture (or parts of it) is to condemn and oppose Muhammad, the Sahaba and other venerated Muslims, who held dear and permitted the parts islamic scripture, seen with distaste by non-muslims.

    So you'll face a tough ride. You'll instead get from many Muslims, condemnations and opposition to groups like ISIS and their actions (persecuting, in ISIS's eyes, vocal Apostates/critics), but you won't likely get condemnation of Islamic scripture, that give rise to such beliefs and existence of groups like ISIS.
    Very true. Even on this site many of the Muslims are far from any normal conception of a "moderate". I remember a while ago I began a thread about Muslim rape gangs. One of the responses was something along the lines of "well British girls shouldn't dress in such revealing clothes". And it got about 12 reps. And this is just TSR! You should check out ummah.com, terrifying place. But what else can be done other than begin to try to reform the religion?
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    Yes they do. It's a backwards culture and religion.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Not really the same though, because Irish people aren't an ideological group.

    It would be fantastic if they did and they absolutely could work together more to do so.



    I'm not suggesting that Muslims try and scout out who are the budding terrorists in their community. I'm suggesting that it would be beneficial if all Muslims spoke out against extremism, so that Muslims were taught that extremism is not acceptable in Islam from a young age. I know some do already, but I also realise that a great many don't.



    I'm not. A minority of Muslims are already doing that.


    What about when Maajid spoke to a radical that wanted to bomb London? The radical wanted to kill civilians as payback for the Iraq war. Maajid showed him photos, videos, and newspaper articles showing just how many protested against it. It changed the radical's mind. I would say that kind of work is extraordinarily helpful. Additionally, Islam clearly does need reform. He is doing great work, and hopefully beginning a new trend to move away from fundamentalism. Many will hate him at first, but that may change over time. It does show just how bad things are though, when Maajid seems to get more hate from the Muslim community than many extremists.



    Yes it absolutely should.
    They already are shown the right way from a young age you ignoramus. Stop trying to act like you know the Muslim community. There is no compulsion or moral obligation on muslims to speak out against extremism. Is there a compulsion on all white people to sit down with their kids and individually tell them "don't do this/don't do that for each and every law"? Get out of here.
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    (Original post by Reformed)
    many extremist preached openly at the mosque - with no consequence. extremeism only exists in islamic community because its tolerated.

    that seemingly is the only way to tackle islamist radicalisation. unfortunately as you say 95%+ of islamic community are against this - you seem to think it would be better to live with radicalisation than tackle it
    Lol why do you say that with such conviction? That is completely false and baseless to say that extremists preach at all mosques/majority of mosques. You sound like a right old islamophobe. Where is your proof? You're literally just saying things.

    Watch that channel 4 documentary on Abu HaleemA (an ISIS sympathiser) and note how they explain how him and his extremist crew are scared to go into mosques because they know they will be told off for their views.
    Spoiler:
    Show
    You're a non muslim who thinks he's an authority on the muslim community culture. Get outta here with your islamophobic views.
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    No, radicalism can be used in any culture, why are we going to persecute one culture when other cultures have people that do it?

    If we want to defeat radicalism in all it forms, we need to talk about it from all angles. That means we need to talk about religious, gender, racial and sex radicalism as well.

    Don't do things half full and then complain that you see no change, do it full and be happy that such a thing can be eradicated.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Some far, far less than others. Islam, far, far more than every other. That is patently the problem, stop trying to weasel out of it and deflect attention away from a serious issue.
    Here we go again, judging Islam and saying Muslims kill everyone. Typical!
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    Since it's their religion which is producing these monstrous abominations of homo sapiens they have a duty to fix it. Unfortunately most just bury their heads in the sand or cover their ears and yell "islamophobia!"

    It's well known that terrorists are able to hide among muslim communities because a lot of muslims don't think they have a responsibility to turn them in, making them murderers as well as traitors when those terrorists kill people. It's about time this stopped, because this is what makes terrorism possible.
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    (Original post by Salon)
    Here we go again, judging Islam and saying Muslims kill everyone. Typical!
    Nice trolling attempt m8
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    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    They already are shown the right way from a young age you ignoramus. Stop trying to act like you know the Muslim community. There is no compulsion or moral obligation on muslims to speak out against extremism. Is there a compulsion on all white people to sit down with their kids and individually tell them "don't do this/don't do that for each and every law"? Get out of here.
    I'm not saying that Muslims have moral obligation to speak out against extremism, I'm saying that it would just be very beneficial if they did. Clearly some kids aren't shown "the right way" from a young age. These extremists don't just exist in a vacuum.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    I'm not saying that Muslims have moral obligation to speak out against extremism, I'm saying that it would just be very beneficial if they did. Clearly some kids aren't shown "the right way" from a young age. These extremists don't just exist in a vacuum.
    We already do. If it was of any benefit, people wouldn't become extreme. What the muslim community can do is limited in the same way that the entire global population can't try harder to get rid of all murder and rape. Everyone's doing the best we can to stop extremism (but these guys hide their intentions and plans very well) but it's not because people like you are telling us to. We've been doing it since before 9/11 and we'll always do it because our religion tells us to stop an evil when we see it happening.

    Thanks for the advice but take note that we're already doing all we can. The terrorists are clever in hiding their secrets from everyone. They KNOW the muslim community (practicing/non-practicing and knowledgeable/unknowledgable) will crash down on them HARD if they were to find out.

    TDLR: The people that say we turn a blind eye to these terrorists are making sickeningly baseless claims which contributes to Islamophobia in general.
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    Yes


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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    I'm not saying that Muslims have moral obligation to speak out against extremism, I'm saying that it would just be very beneficial if they did. Clearly some kids aren't shown "the right way" from a young age. These extremists don't just exist in a vacuum.
    Butternut i am concerned that you believe you are speaking on behalf of our community. fortunately, for me I know you are not representing your Muslim community as I do not echo your views. You have come or born in this country to live a relatively good life with all the rights one needs. Please do not try and cause trouble by saying you are representing your community? You representing terrorism. If you don't like it get out. Go and stay in a country with no rights and poverty. You will sooo. Change your views ha ha ha. Thank you for listening brother or sister. No offence by the way.
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    Most radicalism occurs internally (i.e home). Governements don't have sovereignty there, so there's only so much they can do to counter it. Muslim familes and communities should be doing as much as they can to help defeat islamic fundamentalism, but they simply aren't.
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    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    Thanks for the advice but take note that we're already doing all we can.
    Really? You must be unaware of situations like this then:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35928089

    Does it look as if the leaders of that mosque were doing all they could?
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    I think many Muslims are disconnected from the native population and sentiment. They don't seem to understand the natives in many European countries and the Americas are getting fed up with attacks by Muslims and all the Muslims seem to be doing are saying its nothing to do with us, its prejudice and we can't do anything about it anyway.

    I think these attitudes highlight the gulf between Muslims and the natives. Muslims ideology is seen increasingly as alien and incompatible with mainstream western thinking and Muslims don't seem to understand this at all. Their ideology is alien and incompatible because they have failed to integrate on a number of levels and live very insular lives on the whole even importing wives/husbands from their native lands.

    This was not really an issue when it did not affect the native population but now there are terrorists arising out of the Muslim population many of whom were born in the West, the difference between Muslim thinking and the natives has come into sharp focus.

    I think there is really a short amount of time for Muslims to get together and come up with a narrative that explains who they are to the natives and try to be more proactive about countering radicalism within their communities. Otherwise, the natives will start demanding something more drastic be done to stop the terrorists, something that will affect all Muslims whether they support terrorists or not.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I think many Muslims are disconnected from the native population and sentiment. They don't seem to understand the natives in many European countries and the Americas are getting fed up with attacks by Muslims and all the Muslims seem to be doing are saying its nothing to do with us, its prejudice and we can't do anything about it anyway.

    I think these attitudes highlight the gulf between Muslims and the natives. Muslims ideology is seen increasingly as alien and incompatible with mainstream western thinking and Muslims don't seem to understand this at all. Their ideology is alien and incompatible because they have failed to integrate on a number of levels and live very insular lives on the whole even importing wives/husbands from their native lands.

    This was not really an issue when it did not affect the native population but now there are terrorists arising out of the Muslim population many of whom were born in the West, the difference between Muslim thinking and the natives has come into sharp focus.

    I think there is really a short amount of time for Muslims to get together and come up with a narrative that explains who they are to the natives and try to be more proactive about countering radicalism within their communities. Otherwise, the natives will start demanding something more drastic be done to stop the terrorists, something that will affect all Muslims whether they support terrorists or not.
    Yeh I think this is a really good point. I don't think Muslims realize just how different their values are to the native's. I also think they often misinterpret some things as being similar to their own views when really they aren't.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Really? You must be unaware of situations like this then:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35928089

    Does it look as if the leaders of that mosque were doing all they could?
    Like I mentioned, extremists keep their links and thoughts on the down low. Mosque leaders couldn't have known. Also, this is a one-off. Part of the 2-3%. But for you islamophobes, the only islam you see is this 2-3% shown by the media. The other thousands and thousands of mosques don't matter; this 2-3% represents everyone amirite? amirite??
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    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    Like I mentioned, extremists keep their links and thoughts on the down low. Mosque leaders couldn't have known. Also, this is a one-off. Part of the 2-3%. But for you islamophobes, the only islam you see is this 2-3% shown by the media. The other thousands and thousands of mosques don't matter; this 2-3% represents everyone amirite? amirite??
    Two or three % is huge


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    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    Like I mentioned, extremists keep their links and thoughts on the down low. Mosque leaders couldn't have known. Also, this is a one-off. Part of the 2-3%. But for you islamophobes, the only islam you see is this 2-3% shown by the media. The other thousands and thousands of mosques don't matter; this 2-3% represents everyone amirite? amirite??
    Two points:

    (a) That article says that the mosque leaders did know.

    (b) About half of all UK mosques have Salafi or Deobandi-trained preachers - a surefire way to guarantee extremism.
 
 
 
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