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B953 - Brothel Regulation Bill 2016 (Second Reading) watch

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    Is it illegal for me to not point out the obvious for personal gain?

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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Firstly, all Brothels have to comply with the Health and Safety at Work Act. It is down to local authorities to accept or reject licenses for Brothels and also allows them to self-regulate within their local area (Section 2.11 of the bill). It is reasonable to assume that there would be support from Sixth Forms and the Local Authorities to stop young girls to go into prostitution as well as the protection of all workers, as is written in the notes with the costing. That's £800m a year going in to securing the safety of all workers and all young girls. Furthermore, at 18 years old, it is ultimately, in my view, the person's choice to become a sex worker or not. At least this way, they can be protected properly. Licences are renewed annually and can be terminated at any point - they last a decade as there is no point in having a brothel owner reapply every year. The number of sexual partners a worker has is irrelevant - a time period is set out in the bill.

    Finally, you could and should have said any of this in the first reading, so the bill could actually be improved further - instead, you have chosen to say it now as you want to see this bill fail for purely idealogical reasons, and you know full well that I will not be able to get out another reading in time.
    The Health and Safety at Work Act was not written to cater for premises where sexual activities take place, the potential for traces of bodily fluids to be contaminating the establishments present a threat that no existing Act of Parliament covers, nor this bill. That is inadequate, local authorities need guidelines to follow before issuing, or revoking a licences because not having guidelines will see areas where there are lenient local authorities becoming sex towns, and court cases where brothels are appealing a decision by a local authority that is felt as an unjust decision to not issue a licence. Reviewing licences annually with no explanation is more inadequacy, the review in one area could consist of the local authority not acting if there have been no complaints from the public, but in another area the local authority's review would include inspectors monitoring the hygiene of the brothel.

    I do not agree stating a sum of money will help protect girls is good enough to protect people when sixth forms, carers, guardians, and local authorities are currently failing to protect vulnerable girls; this bill changes nothing. This bill ignores reasonable challenges about how local authorities will monitor brothels, the guidelines when deciding if a licence will be issued, the standards brothels need to meet, and how girls will be protected.

    The other point you have ignored is the point on pay, brothels could operate where prostitutes are employees who are paid minimum wage, or brothels could be associates where prostitutes keep all of the money from clients but prostitutes need to pay a share to the brothel owner for operating out of the brothel. If the brothels are going to operate on an associate basis there must be legislation to stop brothel owners charging high fees which could see prostitutes earn below minimum wage, and if the brothel will operate as a company employing staff, there needs to be legislation making special provisions in employment law for the brother-specific reasons an employee's contract might be terminated. The MHoC is not going to close, a further reading can be submitted for debating next term; there is nothing wrong with a delayed third reading.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    B953 - Brothel Regulation Bill 2016 (Second Reading), TSR Government

    Brothel Regulation Bill 2016

    An act to decriminalise and regulate the running and use of brothels
    Nah to this. I don't think a society in which a woman's dignity is priced and sold is a good thing.
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    (Original post by TDChattell)
    Nah to this. I don't think a society in which a woman's dignity is priced and sold is a good thing.
    Is it for you to decide what constitutes a woman's dignity?
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Is it for you to decide what constitutes a woman's dignity?
    In countries where prostitution is legalized, you're very unlikely to find prostitutes who have ended up in their trade completely willingly. Many women still do define their 'dignity' as I do, and I don't believe it's right for a society to begin pricing something so many value to such a great extent.
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    (Original post by TDChattell)
    In countries where prostitution is legalized, you're very unlikely to find prostitutes who have ended up in their trade completely willingly. Many women still do define their 'dignity' as I do, and I don't believe it's right for a society to begin pricing something so many value to such a great extent.
    The bolded is completely untrue - for instance, there is evidence that most prostitutes in the USA (a country where prostitution is 'illegal' and thus one would suspect there to be a greater disincentive for women to become prostitutes) are there simply due to higher rates of pay, albeit sometimes with drug addictions fuelling the need to earn more than they could otherwise. It is highly probable that this is even more likely to be the case in a properly regulated industry.

    As for dignity, it ought to be up to women to choose - in addition, you have adduced no evidence to indicate that the majority of prostitutes (the majority of women is obviously the wrong sample to consider, since there will be a significant disincentive to those who agree with you - only prostitutes can possibly be relevant to this element of discussion) agree with you. Furthermore, you said in the Join a Party thread that you were a fan of free markets, or, like many Tories, is that 'free markets if and insofar as their results benefit me personally'?
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    The bolded is completely untrue - for instance, there is evidence that most prostitutes in the USA (a country where prostitution is 'illegal' and thus one would suspect there to be a greater disincentive for women to become prostitutes) are there simply due to higher rates of pay, albeit sometimes with drug addictions fuelling the need to earn more than they could otherwise. It is highly probable that this is even more likely to be the case in a properly regulated industry.

    As for dignity, it ought to be up to women to choose - in addition, you have adduced no evidence to indicate that the majority of prostitutes (the majority of women is obviously the wrong sample to consider, since there will be a significant disincentive to those who agree with you - only prostitutes can possibly be relevant to this element of discussion) agree with you. Furthermore, you said in the Join a Party thread that you were a fan of free markets, or, like many Tories, is that 'free markets if and insofar as their results benefit me personally'?
    Very very few enter the business willingly; see virtually any story of how said girl entered the business, and 99% of the time there's a story of abuse/crime/drug additions (as you mentioned).

    I definitely agree that it should be up to women to choose what to do with their own bodies, and I'm not saying we should limit the sexual freedom of any women. What I have a problem with, is that when sex becomes a good that is brought and sold, there is an expectation upon destitute women (who make up a huge percentage of those in the trade) to go into the industry to make ends meet. If women want to have lots of sex, that's their business. What I don't think is acceptable is turning it into a good, placing expectations on other women to behave in the same way, if desperately needing money. Again, the number of prostitutes who are in the industry out of desperation and clearly don't want to be there is very high, and those who do are hardly going to be clamped down by not legalizing the sale of sex.

    Remind me how any of this has anything to do with my personal gain?
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    (Original post by TDChattell)
    Very very few enter the business willingly; see virtually any story of how said girl entered the business, and 99% of the time there's a story of abuse/crime/drug additions (as you mentioned).

    I definitely agree that it should be up to women to choose what to do with their own bodies, and I'm not saying we should limit the sexual freedom of any women. What I have a problem with, is that when sex becomes a good that is brought and sold, there is an expectation upon destitute women (who make up a huge percentage of those in the trade) to go into the industry to make ends meet. If women want to have lots of sex, that's their business. What I don't think is acceptable is turning it into a good, placing expectations on other women to behave in the same way, if desperately needing money. Again, the number of prostitutes who are in the industry out of desperation and clearly don't want to be there is very high, and those who do are hardly going to be clamped down by not legalizing the sale of sex.

    Remind me how any of this has anything to do with my personal gain?
    This is incredibly important, especially when it's the government endorsing this expectation.


    Even if 10% (and I don't think it's that high) of prostitutes enter that line of work willingly, then it leaves 90% who have ended up as prostitutes. Now, when the government recognises prostitution as a legitimate career, these women are no longer exploited, destitute, in need of help but instead, they become employees and the fact that the government is willing to endorse this is appalling quite frankly.
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    This will just cause more problems. We cannot encourage this sort of promiscuous behaviour in society.
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    (Original post by Whiggy)
    This will just cause more problems. We cannot encourage this sort of promiscuous behaviour in society.
    That isnt the issue. People can do what they like, and the stare shouldnt involve itself in the bedrooms if its citizens as long as whats goingon is willing and consensual. The issue is that prostitution isnt a trade that the state should legitimise

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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    That isnt the issue. People can do what they like, and the stare shouldnt involve itself in the bedrooms if its citizens as long as whats goingon is willing and consensual. The issue is that prostitution isnt a trade that the state should legitimise

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    I agree, however prostitution crosses the line. Decriminalisation would allow prostitution to become commercial, a trade, and the Government do have the right to intervene on this issue. Some claim that "sex sells", but this doesn't mean it isn't a risky business; it is banned for very legitimate reasons... there is no practical way of controlling diseases at all.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    That isnt the issue. People can do what they like, and the stare shouldnt involve itself in the bedrooms if its citizens as long as whats goingon is willing and consensual. The issue is that prostitution isnt a trade that the state should legitimise

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    Futhermore, we have seen many cases of sex slaves in the news, and there will always be those who slip the net. In fact, the trade isn't risky, but blatantly dangerous.
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    Is this second reading going to be put in the division lobby before the voting deadline closes?
 
 
 
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