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Young voters who want to stay in the EU must vote, or we will be out! Watch

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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    There's a lot of talk about how things affect the average person. If Anyone thinks that the Tory right(who mostly want out) give a flying fu*ck about the average person they need their head examining.

    Does anyone seriously think that the Tories will retain the laws protecting workers' rights that the EU currently legislates for in the event of an out vote?
    Although lots of Tory MPs are very vocal Outers, I think it's really a minority view even on the Right. The truth is that most business people across the board favour staying in, especially the big companies. I think that many pro-Leave Tory MPs are part of a relatively small group that combines traditional nationalists and people who (wrongly) think that the EU is some sort of socialist plot. It's also a hot button issue for some Tories dating back to the demise of Mrs T at the hands of a cabal and her alleged hatred of the EU being dumped. (In reality, she didn't hate it at all, she merely used it as knocking-fodder to win easy votes via the tabloids.)

    What we actually have is a deeply reactionary piece of manipulation of the working class Right going on. It's very similar to the way that politicians in Argentina invoke Las Malvinas (that's the Falklands to you and me) every time their economy is heading south. What better in the middle of a prolonged period of low growth and declining working class real incomes than blaming Johnny Foreigner for it all?

    It's miserable stuff and I feel embarrassed to be part of the same country where these buttons can be so easily pressed and with such reward. The tabloids have Mr and Mrs Ignorant of Essex well trained and slavishly drooling at their beck and call.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    This really comes across like you're being paid to post here.
    I am! Monsieur le Strange (HQ - Brussels) is paying me a stipend of 200 euros per word! And all straight to my fully offshored bank account in Luxembourg. Gloat. Kerching. More words!

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    I wish. :teehee:
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    300k people arrive from the EU here every year, all prime working age. We have been in the EU for years!

    Go to any university see how many students are foreign.

    Even if it is 10 to 1 job application. EU does not create that many jobs. We run a trade deficit with the EU every year regardless i'm not going to get into a 10,000 word essay when the corporations spend billions every year brainwashing the masses into buying what's right for them.

    I'm a capitalist myself, i don't need to work. But i care for the masses. You can see from all the graphs free trade agreements destroy working families. Hence why we have so many people who work and live in poverty.

    Students on here won't understand until they see the real world. They'll thank me then. Hence why this demographic is more likely to vote in and the 50+ is more likely to vote out.
    Yeah that's right we'll get rid of free trade and increase the cost of living for everyone, because that's really going to help working families.

    Protectionism is disastrous for every country that tries it, you don't need a masters in economics to tell that.
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    So we leave the EU and then all our problems are solved, ISIS dissolve within ten minutes, everyone gets a well-paid job and we all sit round in a circle holding hands.

    Seems to be the general message of the out campaign...
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    (Original post by djh2208)
    Yeah that's right we'll get rid of free trade and increase the cost of living for everyone, because that's really going to help working families.

    Protectionism is disastrous for every country that tries it, you don't need a masters in economics to tell that.
    Although not blessed with a masters in economics, the reality is far more nuanced than you're making out. Protectionism isn't even the abide of the political left and even some libertarians such as David Starkey advocate it as necessary in some cases.
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    Did anyone watch Meet the Ukippers on the BBC last year?

    What a bunch of backwards idiots they all were. I'm not saying everyone who voted UKIP is but it's certainly their core support base.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Maybe you feel indifferent? I know a lot of people feel like they just don't care, "it will be the same either way", etc. I'm not sure that's true. I think leaving the EU would make quite a lot of difference that would gradually become noticeable. For one thing, travel around the EU and the rest of the world would probably become more difficult. For another, we would notice a reduction in living standards after a while as tariffs bite on our industries and we lose capital investment that came here because we are in the EU.
    I just... don't believe you.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    Did anyone watch Meet the Ukippers on the BBC last year?

    What a bunch of backwards idiots they all were. I'm not saying everyone who voted UKIP is but it's certainly their core support base.
    It really should be compulsory viewing for everyone who thinks UKIP have a point. What a bunch of fantastic nincompoops and loons.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    So we leave the EU and then all our problems are solved, ISIS dissolve within ten minutes, everyone gets a well-paid job and we all sit round in a circle holding hands.

    Seems to be the general message of the out campaign...
    Yes they will all be solved instantly.

    I'm not sure what's more obsurd, this idea that's being peddled or Call me Dave implying that the Jungle will move to Kent if we vote out.

    The lack of a reasoned debate is ridiculous at times.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Interesting polling released today. Although 53% of 18-34 age group want to stay in the EU, only half of us are prepared to vote. :sad:
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...s-brexit-leave

    This means in practise that the referendum result will be to leave the EU, unless we go out and vote.

    It's in our hands!

    Voting will be really easy. Take the card to the poll, or register for a postal. The latter takes 10 minutes. Make sure you are on the register as well.

    Can I register to vote?
    http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/registe...gister-to-vote

    Register to vote. (takes 5 minutes)

    https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote
    So 53% of the youth want in? That isnt statistically much different from the whole population. Let's face it there are no divisions on age, or any other random attribute. It is all down to those who have been brainwashed by the pro-eu propaganda and thoise who haven't.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Although not blessed with a masters in economics, the reality is far more nuanced than you're making out. Protectionism isn't even the abide of the political left and even some libertarians such as David Starkey advocate it as necessary in some cases.
    It's a populist position on the right to talk about how it is costing British people jobs in a similar way to immigration (they're wrong in both instances) , but free trade is fundamentally good for the world economy. Economists rarely all agree on any issue, but they do agree that free trade is beneficial.

    Manufacturing jobs tend to move abroad in some cases, but that results in cheaper products over here. When people can buy things cheap, they buy more things which creates more jobs.
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    (Original post by Farage is a hero)
    So 53% of the youth want in? That isnt statistically much different from the whole population. Let's face it there are no divisions on age, or any other random attribute. It is all down to those who have been brainwashed by the pro-eu propaganda and thoise who haven't.
    Some with "Farage is a hero" as their username discussing brainwashing.

    Irony at its finest my friend. I salute you.
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    (Original post by djh2208)
    It's a populist position on the right to talk about how it is costing British people jobs in a similar way to immigration (they're wrong in both instances) , but free trade is fundamentally good for the world economy. Economists rarely all agree on any issue, but they do agree that free trade is beneficial.

    Manufacturing jobs tend to move abroad in some cases, but that results in cheaper products over here. When people can buy things cheap, they buy more things which creates more jobs.
    I agree that free trade is generally beneficial and that global capitalism has reduced global inequality.

    Yet, I do think that things like ethics and the social responsibility to protect weaker members of society should play some role in economics. It is all well and good having cheaper products (Though at a cost in child labour and the environment) but if that results in a loss in work for somebody with a manual worker in an advanced economy they are not going to see it like that (And alas, are going to be susceptible to the UKIPs and Murdoch's of the world).

    Although I dont agree with everything he says David Harvey helps explain what is going wrong with global capitalism:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    Some with "Farage is a hero" as their username discussing brainwashing.

    Irony at its finest my friend. I salute you.
    Yeah but Farage is a 'man of the people' remember.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I am! Monsieur le Strange (HQ - Brussels) is paying me a stipend of 200 euros per word! And all straight to my fully offshored bank account in Luxembourg. Gloat. Kerching. More words!

    Spoiler:
    Show

    I wish. :teehee:
    idk, certainly not just for the EU thing, but wouldn't surprise me if you worked for a think tank, political party, or similar organisation.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    It really should be compulsory viewing for everyone who thinks UKIP have a point. What a bunch of fantastic nincompoops and loons.
    I know UKIP has a lot of points. It also has a lot of reasoned, sensible supporters with the idiots in a minority ... as with any other party.

    Have there ever been programmes about other parties supporters, y'know ... for comparison? Have any other parties supporters been subject to the scrutiny UKIP supporters have? I'd say it's a clear cut 'no' to both questions.
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    Our people are becoming increasingly worse off due to outlanders taking all the jobs. Our government has a responsibility to ensure that Britons have a decent standard of living and must always put Britons first. The EU is undermining the government's ability and willingness to do that and as a result my people (the indigenous Britons) are suffering!

    I for one find this absolutely intolerable. My people are the natives of this land and therefore have a birthright to be given priority over the outlanders. We have a disproportionate amount of outlanders in grammar schools compared to natives, for example. This is completely unacceptable!

    Our leaders are weak and they've allowed the EU fat cats to trample all over us. Leaving the EU is the first step in reversing the damage done by outlanders interfering in the running of our country. My ancestors are probably rolling their graves right now at the depths our country has fallen to.

    Besides, the EU is dying anyway. It's besieged by legions of invading middle eastern barbarians who have no respect for western values and many other countries are looking to pull out of it. Hungary, the Czech Republic and Denmark are all talking about bailing as well as us. It's time we pulled out too before it drags us down further.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Although lots of Tory MPs are very vocal Outers, I think it's really a minority view even on the Right. The truth is that most business people across the board favour staying in, especially the big companies. I think that many pro-Leave Tory MPs are part of a relatively small group that combines traditional nationalists and people who (wrongly) think that the EU is some sort of socialist plot. It's also a hot button issue for some Tories dating back to the demise of Mrs T at the hands of a cabal and her alleged hatred of the EU being dumped. (In reality, she didn't hate it at all, she merely used it as knocking-fodder to win easy votes via the tabloids.)

    What we actually have is a deeply reactionary piece of manipulation of the working class Right going on. It's very similar to the way that politicians in Argentina invoke Las Malvinas (that's the Falklands to you and me) every time their economy is heading south. What better in the middle of a prolonged period of low growth and declining working class real incomes than blaming Johnny Foreigner for it all?

    It's miserable stuff and I feel embarrassed to be part of the same country where these buttons can be so easily pressed and with such reward. The tabloids have Mr and Mrs Ignorant of Essex well trained and slavishly drooling at their beck and call.
    Firstly, I don't know where you got that idea from. Leaving is in fact the majority position on the right, almost half the Tory MPs want to leave, and most Conservative Party members want to leave, so you're just wrong.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-35616946

    http://www.conservativehome.com/thet...ve-the-eu.html

    Secondly, membership of the EEC has always been controversial in the Conservative party, it does not date back to Mrs Thatcher it predates it. It was Enoch Powell who was most responsible for the rise of right-wing euroscepticism, and that was in the 1970s. Your narrative is completely inaccurate.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    idk, certainly not just for the EU thing, but wouldn't surprise me if you worked for a think tank, political party, or similar organisation.
    I work for a politics professor at a university in London.
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    (Original post by JIRAIYA-ERO-SENNIN)
    Firstly, I don't know where you got that idea from. Leaving is in fact the majority position on the right, almost half the Tory MPs want to leave, and most Conservative Party members want to leave, so you're just wrong.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-35616946

    http://www.conservativehome.com/thet...ve-the-eu.html

    Secondly, membership of the EEC has always been controversial in the Conservative party, it does not date back to Mrs Thatcher it predates it. It was Enoch Powell who was most responsible for the rise of right-wing euroscepticism, and that was in the 1970s. Your narrative is completely inaccurate.
    I didn't say the debate started with Thatcher - I said that the current internal schism inside Tory MPs started with her, which is largely true, as the Powellite tendency was fairly marginal in the period you are talking about in mainstream Conservativism.

    I also referred to the right as a whole, not specifically to Tory MPs, although as you point out, leaving the EU is a minority view even amongst that particularly headbanging group. We should note that huge financial inputs into the selection and election of Tory MPs by leading anti-EU fanatic Lord Ashcroft (an offshored billionaire with a history of corrupt activity and numerous accusations against him) have also had a big effect.

    My point stands, which is that anti-EU fervour is a minority view in the UK, even on the right, but has had an unholy influence on policy due to the money and power of people like Ashcroft and other offshore types like Rupert Murdoch and Rothermere/Dacre, the people behind the Mail. They have their own private reasons for hating the EU. The latter for example continue to claim nondom status and are massive tax avoiders from that, despite numerous articles in the Eye showing that they mainly live in the UK with apparent complicity from the HMRC, doubtless under manipulation from right wing governmental forces.

    Then we have the scary loons of UKIP and their burning desire to return to the economy of the 1950s........
 
 
 
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