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David Cameron's father 'ran offshore fund that paid zero UK tax for 30 years' watch

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    Lol. Wanna kick Cameron out of 10 Downing Street? Do you think newspaper can be the strong evidence?

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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    ...
    Yeah, yeah, everyone's a cowering, obsequious wreck but you, you glorious, valiant social justice warrior.

    Thank heavens the world has people like you to go online and tell everyone how generous you'd be if you actually made any money to be generous with, and how aggressive you'd be if you ever chanced upon any sort of governmental authority, presumably by way of winning some kind of lottery.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    They are loopholes, they are identifying gaps in the system, going against the spirit and purpose of the law on a technicality to avoid paying lawful taxes.
    That isn't what is happening here.

    That is a fair definition of a loophole. There are plenty of scheme which try and often fail to exploit such loopholes, but when Parliament imposes taxes on economic activity in the UK but not the rest of the world, it doesn't overlook that the rest of the the world exists. The rest of the world isn't a gap in the system. It is something known to be and accepted to be beyond the reach of the UK tax system.

    If you ask all these journalists who are screaming at what they have found to suggest an organising principle other than "you are rich and I don't like you" to define the limits of taxation, they couldn't do it.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6967671.html



    And people vote for these morons.
    So we're guilty until proven innocent now are we?

    Also DC isn't involved in anything yet. Everything you have said is allogation and speculation. No one is guilty of anything just yet.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Yeah, yeah, everyone's a cowering, obsequious wreck but you, you glorious, valiant social justice warrior.

    Thank heavens the world has people like you to go online and tell everyone how generous you'd be if you actually made any money to be generous with, and how aggressive you'd be if you ever chanced upon any sort of governmental authority, presumably by way of winning some kind of lottery.
    No, I wouldn't be any different. If nothing else you have to keep up if everyone else is doing it. That's the point. The law needs changing, it is impossible to stop people being greedy, the law just has to channel it in such a way that rational self-interest accidentally ends up helping wider society. However the law will not change as long as we keep being presented with and electing the sort of people who stand to benefit from these wheezes.

    The very fact that if I got into power I would want to do everything I could to shut down tax havens - even if out of rational self-interest I was using the things myself - almost guarantees that I am the sort of person who will never be in a position to come to power. However jaded you may be you have to admit that this is a world gone topsy-turvy.

    The trade unions, incidentally, used to be a route to influence for modest people with modest people interests but of course they made damn sure they killed that off.

    My rant above is preposterous but it is absolutely no less than these cheats and liars who pretend to be serving the British public deserve.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    No, I wouldn't be any different. If nothing else you have to keep up if everyone else is doing it. That's the point. The law needs changing, it is impossible to stop people being greedy, the law just has to channel it in such a way that rational self-interest accidentally ends up helping wider society. However the law will not change as long as we keep being presented with and electing the sort of people who stand to benefit from these wheezes.
    Unless you live inside Donald Trump's world view, government requires rational organising principles.

    Those organising principles have to be better than:

    One is a national treasure and the other isn't isn't; or
    I can visualise myself in one scenario so that is legitimate, but I can't visualise myself in the other, so that is a disgrace,

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-tax-bill.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ce-scheme.html
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    That isn't what is happening here.

    That is a fair definition of a loophole. There are plenty of scheme which try and often fail to exploit such loopholes, but when Parliament imposes taxes on economic activity in the UK but not the rest of the world, it doesn't overlook that the rest of the the world exists. The rest of the world isn't a gap in the system. It is something known to be and accepted to be beyond the reach of the UK tax system.

    If you ask all these journalists who are screaming at what they have found to suggest an organising principle other than "you are rich and I don't like you" to define the limits of taxation, they couldn't do it.
    Those capitalist running dogs in the US manage to do exactly that, tax US citizens offshore. Almost anything is possible if you don't let yourself assume nothing can be done and we have to acquiesce. Maybe if Osborne didn't keep blocking EU votes on tackling tax havens we might be able to do something about it as a continent.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Unless you live inside Donald Trump's world view, government requires rational organising principles.

    Those organising principles have to be better than:

    One is a national treasure and the other isn't isn't; or
    I can visualise myself in one scenario so that is legitimate, but I can't visualise myself in the other, so that is a disgrace,

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-tax-bill.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ce-scheme.html
    Not sure I understand what you are getting at here sorry
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    It really does astound me how people like TimmonaPortella above come out of the woodwork to defend or at best apologise for the corruption that goes on.

    Apparently it's all OK that we have the big four writing our tax code because they're all sooo smart only they can do it. It's one thing our government enlisting them when they are the sort of people who will personally benefit: it's quite another seeing useful idiots who will never have enough money to use these schemes, and who will therefore be paying for them, cheer them on.

    It's pathetic the way people bow to big business and believe the propaganda about it: remember, these crooks are the sorts of people regularly referred to in the Tory media as "hard-working wealth creators"!

    Make no mistake, this obsequity is something peculiar to the more servile, docile, stupefied populations of the West, chief among these the UK. We open our legs and our property market to the laundered money of Saudi oil sheikhs, Russian mafiosi and Chinese Communist Party mandarins, and our own elites cycle theirs through the most extensive network of tax havens on the planet, while our own elected Chancellor argues passionately and wields his veto mercilessly against vote after vote by the other EU member states to take multilateral action on tax avoidance.

    In Iceland ten per cent of the entire voting population is protesting in front of the Althing right now demanding the removal of the prime minister, whose family, like Cameron's, has been implicated in the scandal, and who not a day after the scandal broke faces a vote of no confidence. That's the sort of contempt with which we should treat corrupt politicians.

    Can any one of us here imagine anything even remotely like that happening over here? There is more chance of Cameron's dad rising from the grave and being appointed to a plum position on the Public Accounts Committee than of the average Brit holding any of these verminous elites, British or foreign, to account for their corruption.

    After all, this has been known for years: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ily-tax-havens
    What votes has the Chancellor vetoed?
    And the Icelandic Prime Minister himself is implicated in the corruption. That's quite a hugely different scenario than in the UK. Why the eff would people protest in Westminster because Cameron's dad was naughty effectively long before Cameron was even a politician?
    Christ the self-righteous stink people brewed up when the media went after Ed Miliband because his Dad was a communist, yet when it comes to attacking the Tories and Cameron the Daily Mail is gospel and sons are most cetainly guilty for the sins of the father.
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    (Original post by neal95)
    its daves dad not him thats been implicated right.
    Daves dad, the man who hated Britain.
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    To all the lefties banging on about this as a reason to hate the son; what did you think, say and do when the story about Miliband's father came out?





    Don't be hypocrites.
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    It would be immoral if his Father didn't exploit the loophole. The fact is that the tax code is full of idiotic clauses that have little to no use. Rather than reforming it and making it efficient, governments have been adding to it (be they Labour or Conservatives).
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    Those capitalist running dogs in the US manage to do exactly that, tax US citizens offshore.
    Except in practice the US system favours overseas investment through corporate vehicles where the profits of the corporate group end up being taxed nowhere.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    To all the lefties banging on about this as a reason to hate the son; what did you think, say and do when the story about Miliband's father came out?





    Don't be hypocrites.
    Hang on, what did righties think, say and do when the story about Miliband's father came out?


    Don't be hypocrites!!11!!
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    (Original post by TSRUsername99)
    Hang on, what did righties think, say and do when the story about Miliband's father came out?


    Don't be hypocrites!!11!!
    Overwhelming majority said "so? It's his dad, not him".

    And so what if a few did prove themselves to be idiots - do you think the right way to counter that is by sinking to their level? All that does is make everyone look like morons.

    You want to raise the level of debate? Then do it. Not just empty rhetoric.
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    It would be immoral if his Father didn't exploit the loophole. The fact is that the tax code is full of idiotic clauses that have little to no use. Rather than reforming it and making it efficient, governments have been adding to it (be they Labour or Conservatives).
    How should those on payee carry out their patriotic duty to avoid tax?
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    To all the lefties banging on about this as a reason to hate the son; what did you think, say and do when the story about Miliband's father came out?





    Don't be hypocrites.
    It's a reason to hate the son's hypocrisy.

    I don't think they are the same - the coordinated campaign run by the Tories and their friends at the Sun and the Mail to blacken Ralph Miliband was mainly fiction. This story is mainly fact. Then we have the issue that the basis of those attacks was against patriotism and whilst that may or may not have been an issue with Miliband senior, we can see that it definitely is an issue with the Camerons and to make matters worse, Cameron jnr was a cheer leader in the 'Ed's family are not patriots' jeering match.

    The slimy hypocrisy of leading Tory families like this has to be seen to be believed.
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    (Original post by EccentricDiamond)
    Who gives a ****, labour destroyed this country beyond recognition with diversity and multiculturalism
    Don't change the subject mate. This is about tax avoidance.


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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    They don't. And neither do you, if you are really honest with yourself because what do you actually do to make a difference? Virtue signalling on an internet message board doesn't count, you do know that, right?

    Lot's of tax wheeze stuff is immoral and people are greedy. Haven't you learnt that yet?

    If you want to change these things devote your life to reforming international tax law.

    Good luck.
    Doesn't need to be international. There's plenty we can do nationally yet we instead allow accountancy firms who benefit from tax avoidance to draft our tax laws.
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    It would be immoral if his Father didn't exploit the loophole. The fact is that the tax code is full of idiotic clauses that have little to no use. Rather than reforming it and making it efficient, governments have been adding to it (be they Labour or Conservatives).
    This is becoming quite a tired argument. No matter how rigorous the legal frameworks, if you put thousands of highly paid City people onto the case, you will find loopholes. The problem is not the laws but the corrupted system where an entire industry is devoted to offshoring a critical part of our national tax base, to the detriment of all of us.

    I think a simple response would be to remove citizenship from all persons caught engaging in such conduct and prohibit them from ever receiving any access to public services. They would, for example, not be permitted to drive on British roads. Similarly, we should prevent all the tax-dodging corporations from having any access to things like police and fire protection, taxpayer-funded motorway connections or subsidised airports. (which is all of them)
 
 
 
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