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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    >Labour
    >Liberal

    Labour aren't liberal. In many ways the tories are more liberal than labour.
    Indeed. It really is ridiculous. Labour are the worst party atm by far for a liberal imo.
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    (Original post by Katty3)
    The NHS does need more money, it is in crisis.

    If there was enough money, why would the things that I mentioned in my previous post be happening?

    And source please. A reputable one. (The daily fail is not reputable)

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    To be fair there was no evidence in your post so it's a bit rich to demand it from someone else.


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    because it makes them feel moral or holy I guess - they are the party of multiculturalism, (corporate) socialism, immigration, feminism, political correctness, etc
    but the problem with that is that labour politicians are the prime example of lying, invertebrate career politicians with no convictions other than "I'll vote the way my party leader votes because then I'll climb the party ladder".. not all of them are like this (e.g. jerry corb pre-leadership, dennis skinner, etc) but so ****in' many of them are.

    for example: before the election, they *all* (basically) promoted no referendum on the EU
    then as soon as ed steps down and harman subs, they *suddenly* all simultaneously come to the conclusion that they *should* support a referendum
    that's only because they *know* that there's going to be a referendum with a tory majority, so it's not a matter of conviction but whoring themselves out for more support
    you could say this about david cameron doing a triple flip flop, e.g. supporting a referendum on lisbon, then not supporting an EU referendum when he came to power, and then "changing his mind" when UKIP became big. but labour have a far more consistent track record when it comes to flip flopping.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    That article is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. It's full of holes and puts across data about as subjectively as a feminist using data about salaries.


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    see any milo yiannopolous video for proof of feminists being bat shart cray
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    It's seems to be the cool thing, when you're a student, to be left-wing


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    Yup. Most of these naive left wingers wise up when they get some experience of the real world.

    Things like paying tax, that kind of thing. Always easier to want public spending to go through the roof and the country to go bust when it's not your money being pi$$ed away by Labour Governments with their profligacy and all round economic incompetence.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    It's seems to be the cool thing, when you're a student, to be left-wing


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    The cool thing? Usually the righties are students who think the mainstream is stupid and are themselves selfish.

    (Original post by Chandellier)
    i don't understand why people would ever vote Labour or be a liberal. it just doesn't make any sense
    Because it's far better than any of the other bourgeois parties, especially the Tories.
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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    Yup. Most of these naive left wingers wise up when they get some experience of the real world.

    Things like paying tax, that kind of thing. Always easier to want public spending to go through the roof and the country to go bust when it's not your money being pi$$ed away by Labour Governments with their profligacy and all round economic incompetence.
    A quick look at the actual evidence reveals that only two Labour governments have ever left office leaving the national debt higher than it was when they came to power, all of the others have lowered the national debt as a percentage of GDP.

    On the two occasions that Labour oversaw increases in the national debt there were the mitigating circumstances of huge global financial crises. The Ramsay MacDonald government of 1929-31 coincided with the Wall Street Crash (they left a 12% increase in the debt to GDP ratio), and the Blair-Brown government of 1997-2010 coincided with the 2008 financial sector insolvency crisis (an 11% increase). The other Labour governments all reduced the scale of the national debt, Clement Attlee's 1945-51 government reduced the national debt by 40% of GDP despite having to rebuild the UK economy from the ruins of the Second World War. Harold Wilson's 1964-70 government reduced the national debt by 27% of GDP and even the Wilson-Callaghan government of 1974-79 managed to reduce the debt by 4% of GDP.

    In order to put this "cleaning up Labour's mess" narrative to the test, it is useful to look at George Osborne's own record as Chancellor of the Exchequer. In his first 3 years as Chancellor George Osborne managed to add more to the national debt than the supposedly "profligate and irresponsible" Labour party did in the 13 preceding years. In fact, in just 4 years George Osborne has increased the national debt in real terms more than every Labour party chancellor in history combined.
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    (Original post by Craig1998)
    I don't like the Conservatives and Labour fits in to my political views more. Voting for anyone else is stupid as they wont win.
    If people like you oppose the "other" parties because "oh well, they'll never win", then of course they'll never win. It is precisely because of this attitude that smaller parties struggle to grow, even when their message is popular. Self fulfilling prohphecy and all that.

    Furthermore, they don't even need to "win" - they can influence events in parliament with just a few MPs, and look how UKIP was able to influence the EU debate even when it didn't have a single MP but had growing support. Growing support for a party can send a message to other parties and influence political debate even before they have MPs.

    This "don't vote for other parties because they can't win" attitude is standing in the way of political progress.
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    (Original post by Chandellier)
    surprise surprise someone with money avoids tax
    So to you avoiding tax is morally acceptable?

    (Original post by Chandellier)
    why is it that conservative supporters dont tend to insult corbyn but labour supporting leftists always attack cameron? is it because they know they are not going to win?
    Except by running around screaming that he's terrorist-loving, Britain-hating, eats babies - there's such a thing called overdoing it. Their hysteria and demonisation of Corbyn actually caused him to rise in fame and get him noticed - if anything he got more popular the more he was targeted.
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    Because they are not parties that are about to literally split apart. *cough*Tories*cough* *cough*because of EU Referendum*cough*
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    (Original post by Chandellier)
    conservative supporters dont tend to insult corbyn
    Have you been living under a rock?
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    (Original post by MrMackyTv)
    Because they are not parties that are about to literally split apart. *cough*Tories*cough* *cough*because of EU Referendum*cough*
    In fairness it could because of the Blairites and rightists threatening/challenging Corbyn's leadership
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    because they prefer them?
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    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    If people like you oppose the "other" parties because "oh well, they'll never win", then of course they'll never win. It is precisely because of this attitude that smaller parties struggle to grow, even when their message is popular. Self fulfilling prohphecy and all that.

    Furthermore, they don't even need to "win" - they can influence events in parliament with just a few MPs, and look how UKIP was able to influence the EU debate even when it didn't have a single MP but had growing support. Growing support for a party can send a message to other parties and influence political debate even before they have MPs.

    This "don't vote for other parties because they can't win" attitude is standing in the way of political progress.
    I live in an area which has been Conservative since 1983. Me, being just a single voter, voting for a party I prefer (Green), would get us absolutely nowhere and would be more of a waste of a vote. I'd much rather use my vote if it could help stop someone I don't like from winning.

    The thing that stands in the way of progress is the system, the only parties that benefit from it right now are Labour and the Conservatives (and I mean, who will win, rather than the benefits gained by the SNP and the Lib Dems). If a better system was introduced, which didn't give me the worry of a situation where I don't vote for someone and it helps the success of someone worse, then I would happily vote for who I preferred.
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    (Original post by Craig1998)
    I live in an area which has been Conservative since 1983. Me, being just a single voter, voting for a party I prefer (Green), would get us absolutely nowhere and would be more of a waste of a vote. I'd much rather use my vote if it could help stop someone I don't like from winning.

    The thing that stands in the way of progress is the system, the only parties that benefit from it right now are Labour and the Conservatives (and I mean, who will win, rather than the benefits gained by the SNP and the Lib Dems). If a better system was introduced, which didn't give me the worry of a situation where I don't vote for someone and it helps the success of someone worse, then I would happily vote for who I preferred.
    OK then, I can kind of excuse it if you're referring to a safe seat. However, your original comment was aimed more generally at the "other" parties, and this general "voting for other parties is pointless" argument isn't very productive.
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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    Yup. Most of these naive left wingers wise up when they get some experience of the real world.

    Things like paying tax, that kind of thing. Always easier to want public spending to go through the roof and the country to go bust when it's not your money being pi$$ed away by Labour Governments with their profligacy and all round economic incompetence.
    Given that you're playing the 'you'll change when you enter the real world', how old are you and how much do you earn?

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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    >Labour
    >Liberal

    Labour aren't liberal. In many ways the tories are more liberal than labour.
    Snoopers charter.

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    (Original post by Chandellier)
    i don't understand why people would ever vote Labour or be a liberal. it just doesn't make any sense
    Why do people vote for the Tories?
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    So to you avoiding tax is morally acceptable?



    Except by running around screaming that he's terrorist-loving, Britain-hating, eats babies - there's such a thing called overdoing it. Their hysteria and demonisation of Corbyn actually caused him to rise in fame and get him noticed - if anything he got more popular the more he was targeted.
    Avoiding tax is perfectly acceptable.
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    (Original post by trillinhomie)
    If you want anecdotal evidence:
    http://www.contributoria.com/issue/2...d0c0c1200004f/

    There's countless studies to suggest it's existence in the US

    #blacklivesmatter
    http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/stor...alds/80798818/
    #marineslivesmatter

    A higher proportion of native Americans have been killed by police this year
    #nativeamericanlivesmatter
 
 
 
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