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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    This isn't a good argument. Being a doctor is just a job. Plenty of people work harder, study for longer or get paid less.
    It's not a good argument, but neither is the one that you shouldn't fight to improve your conditions because the man down the street doesn't.
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    (Original post by georgief94)
    For most it isn't about the money it is about the unsafe conditions they would be putting their patients in. I couldn't make a proper cup of tea after working an office job for 12 hours straight with no breaks for 10 days in a row let alone be trusted to save lives.
    Yes the Government are planning to ruin the NHS, in the hope that in doing so they will encourage the public to privatise the NHS.

    The Government are trying to make junior doctors work dangerously long hours, that are likely to cause more patient deaths and make the NHS service work.I don't want doctors operating on me to be too tired and barely awake, the arrangements are so dangerous they could ruin the health of the junior doctors and lead to collapses from exhaustion.

    At the moment, junior doctors already have to break the general safe working hours rule that apply for most jobs but now the Government want to take it even further.

    The Government should invest in the NHS and encourage the NHS to employ more doctors with the funds they provide to work these hours instead of asking the same junior doctors to work even more hours.

    I think that its a good idea to invest in increasing University places for Medicine, this would mean we would have a lot more doctors available to be employed and work in the NHS and so many students are applying for Medicine at the moment and can't get a University place so it makes sense.
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    (Original post by Student403)
    I thought this was gonna be a thread by AG about how he's the best doctor and the others are all noobs

    ._.
    he has many admirers in his hospital

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    (Original post by intelligent con)
    Why should they go on strikes when MY taxes pay for them. Wow they're pays being cut so they won't be able to afford a second ferrari boo hoo. Meanwhile the poor refugees in calais are being subject to police and far right brutality. They need to get some perspective and stop their whinging and slowing down appointments in MY hospitals.
    Junior Doctors dont actually earn that much at all - not near as enough as having spent 5-6 years in medicial school and the extent of the stress of the job.
    I'ts the GPs and Consultants that earn a lot so I doubt their strike is because they can't afford a second ferrari.
    You sound very self centred and don't see the bigger picture
    Would you rather YOUR doctor in YOUR hospital be seeing people after a straight 12 hour shift with hardly a break where they're tired and will be more prone to mistakes - what's the incentive in wanting to work in those conditions?
    They're people as well who have lives outside their work, you're not entitled to them.
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    (Original post by intelligent con)
    Why should they go on strikes when MY taxes pay for them. Wow they're pays being cut so they won't be able to afford a second ferrari boo hoo. Meanwhile the poor refugees in calais are being subject to police and far right brutality. They need to get some perspective and stop their whinging and slowing down appointments in MY hospitals.
    Good lord, if anyone's feeling entitled here it's you. They're not your slaves, you don't own them. They have dedicated their lives to an incredibly difficult profession for the sake of the nation's health - they deserve to expect sensible working conditions and if they think the government's changes are going to negatively impact patient healthcare, I believe them. If anyone's in a position to know, it's them.

    Just as the government has tried to destroy the teaching profession by demonising teachers, they're doing the same thing with doctors now. That is the disgrace.
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    (Original post by Dalek1099)
    Yes the Government are planning to ruin the NHS, in the hope that in doing so they will encourage the public to privatise the NHS.
    Been a while Mr tinfoil hat.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Been a while Mr tinfoil hat.

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    As far as conspiracies go, that's a pretty believable one.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    This isn't a good argument. Being a doctor is just a job. Plenty of people work harder, study for longer or get paid less.

    As for migrants, they're probably harder working than most native Brits. They want to come to the UK because we're dropping bombs on their home country.
    "Somebody else has been screwed over even more than you are therefore you have no right to complain".

    Race to the bottom, is it?
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    They are worth every penny.
    (I would imagine Tory MPs have private medical insurance, so they do not care)
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    What have they changed to? Professional placard holder?



    So you're simply pointing it out? For no real reason, just making an observation?


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    Yes of course. We don't have a problem with it at all...

    Anybody being told they would be getting a pay cut for working more unsociable hours would have a problem with it. Just because I am a doctor doesn't mean I should be happy to work for minimum wage.

    But even if they doubled my wages, I would still oppose this contract. You cannot stretch the resources we have over 7 days without compromising patient safety further. There are not enough doctors, but there are also not enough support staff and allied health professionals to make this a reality. That is the crux of the matter.

    I don't need to justify why I deserve a decent wage for the job I do, and I already get a wage I am happy with so trying to paint me as a greedy money grabbing doctor won't work. We are not the only group of people who work hard, but if we're arguing for a race to the bottom then let's never campaign about anything.
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    Yeah. This is what you're saying now, but when you need one you won't dare spout a word.

    I think you're looking at it from only one angle. What about those junior doctors that are being exploited. Forced to work hours they are not contracted to because they are understaffed and the pay doesn't amount up to what they're doing?
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    As far as conspiracies go, that's a pretty believable one.
    It's so believable that all the evidence points to the contrary, if the intention was to privatise the NHS would the increase in the involvement of the private sector not accelerate rather than decelerate? Would there not be ACTUAL privatisation going on too? And if they were wanting to make people want to change it significantly they would be increasing the cost to the point that all but the most ideologically fixated on inefficiency would see it as too expensive for what it's worth.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    It's so believable that all the evidence points to the contrary, if the intention was to privatise the NHS would the increase in the involvement of the private sector not accelerate rather than decelerate? Would there not be ACTUAL privatisation going on too? And if they were wanting to make people want to change it significantly they would be increasing the cost to the point that all but the most ideologically fixated on inefficiency would see it as too expensive for what it's worth.

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    You can play around with the terminology as much as you want but an ever increasing amount of public money is going to private contractors to perform services that would have once been covered by the NHS itself (and of course, this isn't just the case in the NHS, it's happened and happening to many other public services too). In some respects this is even worse than actual privatisation because these companies can rely on massive government grants and often deliver substandard services with price efficiency far below the efficiency of the service when it was publicly run. The road we are going down is undeniably the erosion of public institutions. The NHS might not have been explicitly sold off yet but it is no longer the public institution it used to be.
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    (Original post by intelligent con)
    Why should they go on strikes when MY taxes pay for them. Wow they're pays being cut so they won't be able to afford a second ferrari boo hoo. Meanwhile the poor refugees in calais are being subject to police and far right brutality. They need to get some perspective and stop their whinging and slowing down appointments in MY hospitals.
    Doctors are not striking over unfair pay, thats the media twisting things, in fact some juniors will be better off with the new contract in terms of pay.

    They are striking because the new contract could risk the safety and quality of treatment patients will receive. Long hours and a poor contract will see tired overworked juniors treating our most vulnerable patients!

    Doctors in the uk are paid significantly less than in most other countries in the world. And first hand i know many doctors are willing to move abroad for better pay and conditions, thats why we need to protect the contract and protect the doctors working in our NHS or else we will have no NHS left.

    Im getting very tired of the lack of understanding of the junior doctor contract threatening to be imposed. ITS YOUR HEALTH SERVICE! Stand up for it!


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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Bull****!

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    It's logical sweetheart.

    The more efficient a healthcare service and its workers (i.e. doctors and other staff), the lower mortality rates in a country.


    Duh.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    PRSOM.
    Omfg your avatar is so good
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    (Original post by AxSirlotl)
    I think they're a troll for some reason...
    This guy says a statement and then when people challenge him he doesn't reply to it.

    Not that intelligent tbh
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Good lord, if anyone's feeling entitled here it's you. They're not your slaves, you don't own them. They have dedicated their lives to an incredibly difficult profession for the sake of the nation's health - they deserve to expect sensible working conditions and if they think the government's changes are going to negatively impact patient healthcare, I believe them. If anyone's in a position to know, it's them.

    Just as the government has tried to destroy the teaching profession by demonising teachers, they're doing the same thing with doctors now. That is the disgrace.
    Cannot rep this enough.
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    (Original post by Sarky)
    Yes of course. We don't have a problem with it at all...

    Anybody being told they would be getting a pay cut for working more unsociable hours would have a problem with it. Just because I am a doctor doesn't mean I should be happy to work for minimum wage.

    But even if they doubled my wages, I would still oppose this contract. You cannot stretch the resources we have over 7 days without compromising patient safety further. There are not enough doctors, but there are also not enough support staff and allied health professionals to make this a reality. That is the crux of the matter.

    I don't need to justify why I deserve a decent wage for the job I do, and I already get a wage I am happy with so trying to paint me as a greedy money grabbing doctor won't work. We are not the only group of people who work hard, but if we're arguing for a race to the bottom then let's never campaign about anything.
    Well as someone else said, there's always the private sector


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    (Original post by Natalierm2707)
    Doctors are not striking over unfair pay, thats the media twisting things, in fact some juniors will be better off with the new contract in terms of pay.

    They are striking because the new contract could risk the safety and quality of treatment patients will receive. Long hours and a poor contract will see tired overworked juniors treating our most vulnerable patients!

    Doctors in the uk are paid significantly less than in most other countries in the world. And first hand i know many doctors are willing to move abroad for better pay and conditions, thats why we need to protect the contract and protect the doctors working in our NHS or else we will have no NHS left.

    Im getting very tired of the lack of understanding of the junior doctor contract threatening to be imposed. ITS YOUR HEALTH SERVICE! Stand up for it!


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Appreciate that you are really busy with work etc, and it is a genuine shame that the media IS distorting things. Could you maybe give us a brief synopsis, if only to give us a more clearer understanding?Always nice to have the facts, not just dogma (I speak of the media in that regard).

    (please. And small words. I'm very dim. )
 
 
 
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