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Muslim self-criticism Watch

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    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    I explained how salafism is separate from terrorism. What's more to say?
    a lot
    Salafism means - in the intentions of those who practice it- returning to Islam as practiced by the first three generations of Muslims (Muhammad's companions -the Sahabah - the first generation -the Tabi‘un- and the second generation -the Tabi‘ al-Tabi‘in). In practice, it means drawing inspiration from an era (widely idealised) of continuous warfare, of strong opposition between Islam and "the kuffar", following an interpretation of Islam which is very strict and - in my opinion - intolerant: on the lines of what Ibn Taymiyyah and Abd al-Wahab have preached

    As to terrorism, you know very well that the 9/11 attackers were Saudi citizens, and it is obvious that Saudi money (to start with, of course, Bin Laden's resources) financed terrorism in the 2000-2010 period. This was mostly private money, of course.

    Right now, financing for terrorism derives mostly from oil/antiques sales as well as tax money from the Caliphate : however, private capitals from the Gulf area seem to be still flowing - difficult to prove, however

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    I could go on with all the points wrong but I need to study so here is one that made me laugh:

    Muslims use over a 1000 books to gather information nowadays and the Quran is intellectually inaccessible.


    Hahahahahahaha, just cause it's Saudi don't mean she is 100% right people. Like I actually am struggling to recover from this statement of entertainment
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    (Original post by Attempt)
    Who should we thank for the beheadings, raping and pillaging, and persecution of minorities in the middle east?
    OPEC
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    There is a stronger motivating factor for this terrorist. Islam is being used as scapegoat.Please read the whole thing.I am a Muslim. The Quran isn't just a book of peace it is a book for life and in life there would be war.So we are taught how to act according. Furthermore there are 2 kinds of Jihad with this being seen as Lesser Jihad.These acts are being orchestrated for financial gain.Why hasn't Saudi Arabia or Dubai or all the other arab country accept migrants.Why?So the go to Europe and create an abundant source of "Free labor".


    But hey that is my two cent.Lets keep it civilian. Ayyyyyyyyyy lmao
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    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    Very strict on tawheed (believing that God is One) and defeating shirk (associating partners or intermediaries to God) which was prevalent amongst muslims who began adopting Hindu practices and worshipping trees and scholars as Gods. Salafism is about referring to authentic Hadiths and interpretations of Quranic verses.The salafis practice Islam as it was practiced by Muhammed (peace and prayers upon him) and his companions and the next three generations (as instructed by Muhammed). We practice Islam void of any innovations like what the Shia and Sufis do for example like celebrating the birthday of Muhammed as he did not practice it nor encourage it. Main thing of salafiyyah is basically calling the muslims back to what was originially prescribed and stopping them from innovating in the religion and doing such practices. We rely solely on Quran and authentic hadiths to define Islam and nothing in Islam promotes this terrorism so nothing in Salafiyyah promotes terrorism.Authentic Islam IS basically salafiyyah.I HATE it. Absolutely ENRAGES me when uneducated Google-using ingnoramuses like yourself try and teach me my own religion. It is absolutely unheard of. Mariachi, I honestly assure you that you would not last one minute in a debate with me in person.
    Lets analyze this from a non cult members perspective.We"ll start with a definition of salafism,"Salafists are islamic fundamentalists who believe in a return to the fundamentals of Islam. "

    Lets start there, to anyone reading, who can rationally deduce that a more fundamental, aka extreme intreme interpretation in what is already a highly politival ideology does not naturally lead to terrorism and extremism.

    Lets have a look at some notable wahabists shall we;

    Zakir Naik;"If bin Laden is fighting enemies of Islam, I am for him," and that "If he is terrorizing America – the terrorist, biggest terrorist – I am with him. Every Muslim should be a terrorist. The thing is that if he is terrorizing the terrorist, he is following Islam."

    - cannot at all be interpreted as terrorist enabling rhetoric can it? As usually in the Islamic world, terrorism is justified, enabled and encouraged. The quote is very telling of Naiks view on Islamist extremism.

    Perhaps we should look at some puritanical Islamic movements?
    - IS
    -AQ
    -Afghan anti Soviet Taliban
    -Boko Haram
    -Al Nusra

    Essentially every single Islamic terrorist group adheres to Salafism. This holds by definition, if Salafism is the extremely orthodox interpretation of Islam then by definition it will be practiced by those who hold those most extreme views. Have a google to find out more.

    Now lets address the second part, according to OP who of course cannot he trusted as she holds Islam infallible aka it CANNOT EVER be at fault, Islam does not encourage extremism. Lets prove that wrong too by providing some quotes:

    Quran 2 191:193- "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah[disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing.."

    Quran 3:151 - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers"

    Quran 2:244 - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

    Quran 2:216 - "fighting is prrscribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

    Does this not sound as if it endorses violence, i will let you be the judge.

    However here we have another dilemma. Muslims and apologists will rush to scream context. However is this the standard to which i should an infallible book? Is it too unreasonable for me to expect Allah to write a book which isnt so confusing and prone to interpretation? If Allah was a human we would undoubtedly hold him to be a terrible writer who can't seem to get his ideas across properly.

    However beyond all lets remember what kind of person were dealing with here people. Were dealing with a person who will never, ever, at any cost, ever, hold Islam accountable. Islam cannot be accountable. Was the world to be destroyed by Islamic terrorism she would still deem it infallible. This type of zealotry is not only intellectually immoral, its dangerous and means she cannot be trusted as she has already derived a conclusion before even looking at the facts. If that doesn't make you uncomfortable, I don't know what does.

    Of course. I just expect a reply about islamophobia or other intellectual manure.
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    I liked that video, she drops a massive nuclear truth bomb which many people will still deny, deny, deny.
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    (Original post by Attempt)
    Who should we thank for the beheadings, raping and pillaging, and persecution of minorities in the middle east?
    HAHA, you do you know these things occur elsewhere in the world, but the world and the media is so fixated and fascinated with ISIS well? Also, ISIS even damn effing tell us, they feed on the media attention (hence on why they do the attacks - partly), so basically we give them leeway into doing so.

    Rape? ISIS do that, and ten times worst because they're animals, but this also occurs in India "every girl is raped every 20 minutes". Executions in Saudi Arabia, perpetually, yet the media turns a blind eye - free oil. Prosecution of minorities? Bhurmese citizens, Tibetians and the war in Armenia?
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    (Original post by TheManHimeself)
    There is a stronger motivating factor for this terrorist. Islam is being used as scapegoat.Please read the whole thing.I am a Muslim. The Quran isn't just a book of peace it is a book for life and in life there would be war.So we are taught how to act according. Furthermore there are 2 kinds of Jihad with this being seen as Lesser Jihad.These acts are being orchestrated for financial gain.Why hasn't Saudi Arabia or Dubai or all the other arab country accept migrants.Why?So the go to Europe and create an abundant source of "Free labor".


    But hey that is my two cent.Lets keep it civilian. Ayyyyyyyyyy lmao
    You forgot to mention the Mossad and the CIA.
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    hi BN
    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    uneducated Google-using ingnoramuses like yourself
    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    The salafis practice Islam as it was practiced by Muhammed (peace and prayers upon him) and his companions and the next three generations .
    the next two generations

    learn some manners, and have a good day

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    (Original post by ales79)
    Muslims and apologists will rush to scream context. However is this the standard to which i should an infallible book? Is it too unreasonable for me to expect Allah to write a book which isnt so confusing and prone to interpretation? If Allah was a human we would undoubtedly hold him to be a terrible writer who can't seem to get his ideas across properly.
    this

    (Original post by ales79)
    I just expect a reply about islamophobia or other intellectual manure.
    "context" and "islamophobia" are the only answers we will presumably receive

    guess we should resign ourselves to this... oh, I forgot the "ingnoramuses" ... good one

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    (Original post by Oblivion99)
    HAHA, you do you know these things occur elsewhere in the world, but the world and the media is so fixated and fascinated with ISIS well? Also, ISIS even damn effing tell us, they feed on the media attention (hence on why they do the attacks - partly), so basically we give them leeway into doing so.

    Rape? ISIS do that, and ten times worst because they're animals, but this also occurs in India "every girl is raped every 20 minutes". Executions in Saudi Arabia, perpetually, yet the media turns a blind eye - free oil. Prosecution of minorities? Bhurmese citizens, Tibetians and the war in Armenia?
    The difference between the terror, raping, pillaging etc orchestrated by ISIS, and other parts of the world is that in the other parts of the world, those evil acts are done by low life scumbags who have to turn to crime to make ends meat. Not commanded by their religion

    Isis on the other hand are religious fundamentalists that have their religion support their actions.
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    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    Mariachi, I honestly assure you that you would not last one minute in a debate with me in person.
    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    Quite frankly, if we spoke in person, you would honestly have your butt handed to you on a plate.
    Veiled threats of violence whilst trying to prove that your sect doesn't have a tendency to violence. Much irony. :toofunny:
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    (Original post by M14B)
    How come she is dressed like this in Saudi Arabia?
    They could dress like that in TV studios as long as they are indoors.
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    (Original post by samina_ay)
    People are so obsessed with Islam nowadays. I thank the media for the free popularity
    Popularity is not the right word. Publicity perhaps. And publicity isn't necessarily a good thing.
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    (Original post by RobML)
    Bigger balls than most men to say that stuff in Saudi Arabia of all places.
    Brave woman. But I was struck by the quantity of makeup and her lack of hijab.

    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    Popularity is not the right word. Publicity perhaps. And publicity isn't necessarily a good thing.
    Infamy? :holmes:
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    Popularity is not the right word. Publicity perhaps. And publicity isn't necessarily a good thing.
    I made that post days ago
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    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    Every single one of those verses has a context which I have explained to people before. Quite frankly, if we spoke in person, you would honestly have your butt handed to you on a plate.

    Nevertheless, it suffices to say that just like these terrorists do not represent salafiyah, they also do not represent Islam. I adhere to Salafiyyah strongly and nothing in my teachings support what you are saying. Don't be upset that you're too stupid to understand that there's a context needed for certain verses. Most easiest one for you to understand is if you look at the prayer. It is required to pray 5 times a day but there are no verses in the Quran to explain how and when so we need a context ie hadiths can explain it. Same goes for the pilgrimage and other islamic rituals.

    Also, I'm not a she. I am a he. And I am not an apologist. They would dismiss anything that you islamophobes point out, regardless of whether or not it is true. I'm just gonna dismiss whatever myths you have about my religion.
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    Please don't teach me my religion, thank you very much (not).
    Are you aware of the history of the Islamic empire and the propagation of Islam? It's a stupid question really, of course you're not. If you'd actually taken the time to research the actions of Mohammad (pbuh) I doubt you'd be defending his ideology like this.

    Please, go and look up the massacre of the Banu Quraysh as a minimum. It would be better if you also researched the pre - Islamic Meccan culture and the desecration of the Pagan shrine of the Kaaba, during which the Quraysh tribes were forced to convert to Islam. You should also read up on the fates of those who refused to convert. I think you'll find it quite interesting. Keep in mind that the Qu'ran was written during these times and that this is the context in which the Qu'ran's violent verses were written.

    After you've done your homework, THEN you can debate this topic.
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    (Original post by Peroxidation)
    After you've done your homework, THEN you can debate this topic.
    This user is well-known for knowing almost nothing about the subject of which he claims to be an expert, and frequently has to retreat to a Salafi website called IslamQA to search for the prescribed rebuttal to any argument put to him by non-believers and those who are, in his estimation, not True Muslims™. Despite what you've politely asked of him, you can only expect a barrage of insults, almost certainly inclusive of that discredited slur: 'Islamophobe.' :lol:
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    This user is well-known for knowing almost nothing about the subject of which he claims to be an expert, and frequently has to retreat to a Salafi website called IslamQA to search for the prescribed rebuttal to any argument put to him by non-believers and those who are, in his estimation, not True Muslims™. Despite what you've politely asked of him, you can only expect a barrage of insults, almost certainly inclusive of that discredited slur: 'Islamophobe.' :lol:

    He's almost as bad as Frank underwood, who actually quoted a Christian apologist website when I was embarrassing him in a thread about Islam being peaceful.

    He used the website called "Answering-Islam" (A website run by 2 CHRISTIAN apologists) because of the title, showing that these people have clearly never done any research on this topic and rely on google searching and wahabbi shieks and imams for comebacks.

    :rofl::rofl:
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    This user is well-known for knowing almost nothing about the subject of which he claims to be an expert, and frequently has to retreat to a Salafi website called IslamQA to search for the prescribed rebuttal to any argument put to him by non-believers and those who are, in his estimation, not True Muslims™. Despite what you've politely asked of him, you can only expect a barrage of insults, almost certainly inclusive of that discredited slur: 'Islamophobe.' :lol:
    :rofl:

    Wellp, insults are all you can expect from die-hard idiots.

    I've met 1 Muslim on here who's capable of having civilised discourse with a kuffar so I think I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Though tbh it's probably just wishful thinking on my part.

    Besides, I'm quite proud of my 'Islamophobe' label. It's a mark of rationality.
 
 
 
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