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The British Empire - was it worth it? Watch

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    (Original post by ZiggyStarDust_)
    what about the fact that people were treated like third-class citizens in their own country? does that not matter at all?
    Honestly, no it does not. Our self interest was satisfied and a bunch of feudal societies were conquered.

    I will admit that the empire was unsustainable in the manner it was in and as a result it should have transitioned into an imperial federation of some kind rather than be disbanded though.
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    I very much doubt the British empire was a moral campaign but i'd just like to point out it did abolish slavery, which was a very common practice in almost all cultures. Let's not pretend the cultures Britain conquered were by any means peaceful, many were equally as violent, even towards their own subjects. Britain had one of the most advanced and liberal governments in the world meanwhile a lot of other countries still practiced horrible things like killing children (and still do today)
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    (Original post by ZiggyStarDust_)
    Can I just say, your profile picture is absolutely 100% sexy
    Firstly, thanks.

    Secondly, I can see why there is reason to be ashamed of that aspect of the British Empire, for the reasons as you pointed out. But literally EVERY country has done bad things. We shouldn't erase any part of history due to it being bad because literally all of history is bad. All feeling sorry ourselves does is make us weaker and people poorer and miserable.

    As for the British Empire oppressing other countries, well, at first yes. But if, by the end of it, we were truly oppressing them we wouldn't have even let them get anywhere near independence let alone hand it out to them. The United Nations and European Union are just examples of attempts to unify countries, yet if Britain does it suddenly "oh no, we're oppressing them" and I think that's due to the shame people feel towards the British Empire. For most of the history of the British Empire you are spot on that we oppressed countries, etc, but by the end of it we were probably the most democratic country in the world and I think we and the whole world would've been a lot stronger had we remained some sort of, as someone said above, Imperial Federation. We'd learnt the lessons of our past and sorted everything out, we could've helped bring peace and true democracy to everywhere but instead we decided to just let them have a go at it themselves. It's a bit like someone going to University, training to become a Doctor and then deciding to not become a Doctor, wasting all the skills they spents years learning even though they could've done good things had they used them.

    And I meant English is the most widely used langauge in terms of countries.

    I don't see what's wrong in having pride in something. If no one felt pride for their country or wanted their country to win, Sid Meier's Civilisation series would be out of business.
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    (Original post by ZiggyStarDust_)
    What do you think?

    Do you think it was worth it for Britain to have had it? Or not?

    Thoughts, people!
    From who's perspective? A Briton, or the natives that they ruled over?
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    (Original post by TheALevelStudent)
    From who's perspective? A Briton, or the natives that they ruled over?
    simply in your opinion.
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    (Original post by similarBlank)
    Firstly, thanks.

    Secondly, I can see why there is reason to be ashamed of that aspect of the British Empire, for the reasons as you pointed out. But literally EVERY country has done bad things. We shouldn't erase any part of history due to it being bad because literally all of history is bad. All feeling sorry ourselves does is make us weaker and people poorer and miserable.

    As for the British Empire oppressing other countries, well, at first yes. But if, by the end of it, we were truly oppressing them we wouldn't have even let them get anywhere near independence let alone hand it out to them. The United Nations and European Union are just examples of attempts to unify countries, yet if Britain does it suddenly "oh no, we're oppressing them" and I think that's due to the shame people feel towards the British Empire. For most of the history of the British Empire you are spot on that we oppressed countries, etc, but by the end of it we were probably the most democratic country in the world and I think we and the whole world would've been a lot stronger had we remained some sort of, as someone said above, Imperial Federation. We'd learnt the lessons of our past and sorted everything out, we could've helped bring peace and true democracy to everywhere but instead we decided to just let them have a go at it themselves. It's a bit like someone going to University, training to become a Doctor and then deciding to not become a Doctor, wasting all the skills they spents years learning even though they could've done good things had they used them.

    And I meant English is the most widely used langauge in terms of countries.

    I don't see what's wrong in having pride in something. If no one felt pride for their country or wanted their country to win, Sid Meier's Civilisation series would be out of business.

    Okay, you make a good point with us, as a nation having pride. That's definitely something we should have.
    You make some good points actually.
    But for me, oppressing the people of the other nations, like India and parts of Africa, just feels too morally wrong to be forgiven. I can see why you would think otherwise though, so fair do's.
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    I think that the British Empire was worth it. It has helped to make the world what it is today. It is ashame that the Empire fell and that for some reason people don't really like talking about it and are ashamed about it. Yeah there were some bad things which happened but I would say that there were a lot more good things which came about because of the Empire. Some people can't see what the benefits were they just focus on the couple of questionable things which happened and get us slated for it and want appologises to be made which shouldn't be done. What happened happened there is nothing we can do about it and it happened in a time where it was acceptable in them times, we may look back now and think that it was bad and yes it probably was but if it didn't happen then it could be happening now. It will just be the same in the future, future generations will look back at the time we are currently in and think that the things we are doing are bad such as pollution, staying/leaving the EU, being in wars etc etc where currently it is ok

    It hasn't helped though with what has happened to Britain currently. We are still seen as a strong country in different ways but it isn't what it used to be which isn't good for the future. The Empire wouldn't work in the present era though as too much has changed for it to be viable any more. If it wasn't for the Empire then who knows what the world would be like or what Britain would be like but for one thing it wouldn't be anything like the times we're currently in. I think that it should be taught more about in schools and focus on both sides the good and the questionable and people should be proud of the Empire and the progress that has been made because of it
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    (Original post by ZiggyStarDust_)
    What do you think?

    Do you think it was worth it for Britain to have had it? Or not?

    Thoughts, people!
    For Britain yes

    For every country the greedy cnts conquered, no.
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    (Original post by ZiggyStarDust_)
    simply in your opinion.
    Having ancestory from a non British background, which was subject to rule by the British, the empire was terrible.

    It completely changed our heritage and traditions, and ended the prosperous local empire which in place before it.

    However had it not been for the British empire, I probably wouldn't be here in Britain today.

    But perhaps I wouldn't want to be here, and my motherland would be in a much better state had it not been for the British interviening and changing the system.
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    (Original post by TheALevelStudent)
    Having ancestory from a non British background, which was subject to rule by the British, the empire was terrible.

    It completely changed our heritage and traditions, and ended the prosperous local empire which in place before it.

    However had it not been for the British empire, I probably wouldn't be here in Britain today.

    But perhaps I wouldn't want to be here, and my motherland would be in a much better state had it not been for the British interviening and changing the system.
    Lets be honest here.. if it was one or two countries that were still impoverished post-independence then you can make a fair claim that we robbed your chance in life but actually it's the majority, that suggests (especially given how technologically inferior most states were when we arrived) that the British Empire was likely culturally superior in terms of fostering values that support prosperity.

    I'm not saying that the British made your place of origin better off, i'm just saying that we are certainly not a constraining force.
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    I do wonder whether the British Empire, in some ways, actually closed the gap between Europe and certain parts of Africa going into the 20th century.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Lets be honest here.. if it was one or two countries that were still impoverished post-independence then you can make a fair claim that we robbed your chance in life but actually it's the majority, that suggests (especially given how technologically inferior most states were when we arrived) that the British Empire was likely culturally superior in terms of fostering values that support prosperity.

    I'm not saying that the British made your place of origin better off, i'm just saying that we are certainly not a constraining force.
    Originally we had a nice kingdom, everyone was united and there was no conflict. The arts flourished and education was at a all time high (for both genders) for the area. It was an ideal state.

    Along comes the british, overthrows the empire through the use of their advanced artillery and by deceitfulness. My people were treated as second class citizens for over 60 years, our beliefs disrespected, our culture completely disregarded. Of course this lead to a dilution of the original ways, and everything became more 'modernised' and has been so ever since.

    We do not know of our original heritage anymore. One may presume that if the british had not invaded, then we would still be the flourishing nation we were before they came into the picture.
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    (Original post by TheALevelStudent)
    Originally we had a nice kingdom, everyone was united and there was no conflict. The arts flourished and education was at a all time high (for both genders) for the area. It was an ideal state.

    Along comes the british, overthrows the empire through the use of their advanced artillery and by deceitfulness. My people were treated as second class citizens for over 60 years, our beliefs disrespected, our culture completely disregarded. Of course this lead to a dilution of the original ways, and everything became more 'modernised' and has been so ever since.

    We do not know of our original heritage anymore. One may presume that if the british had not invaded, then we would still be the flourishing nation we were before they came into the picture.
    Where's this?
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Where's this?
    Sikh Empire of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Punjab, India. 1799-1840.
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    Britain was smart to disband the empire. If they didn't, it won't be long till violent revolution and British blood will be spilled.

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    (Original post by TheALevelStudent)
    Sikh Empire of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Punjab, India. 1799-1840.
    While there were certainly some kingdoms that were pretty peaceful and prosperous, a fair amount of modern day India had waring states just like Europe. I'm also far from convinced you'd have been much better off given that you wasted 50 years post independence and had Soviet sympathies.
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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    Britain was smart to disband the empire. If they didn't, it won't be long till violent revolution and British blood will be spilled.

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    Rebellion is irrelevant if you win. We'd have had air and naval superiority.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Rebellion is irrelevant if you win. We'd have had air and naval superiority.
    How did 1775 went?

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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    How did 1775 went?

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    We only pulled back because expending resources on a fight for about a third of the modern US seemed pointless at the time (plus we had no planes back then). The people of India and Africa were also not advanced like the whites that had come to the US, Australia and Canada. How would your rebellion have coped with being carpet bombed from above.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    We only pulled back because expending resources on a fight for about a third of the modern US seemed pointless at the time (plus we had no planes back then). The people of India and Africa were also not advanced like the whites that had come to the US, Australia and Canada. How would your rebellion have coped with being carpet bombed from above.
    :blah:

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