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    (Original post by Howard)
    Assuming she's talking about seven different occasions this person is living like a pig.
    There have been different posters, you insensitive clod.
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    (Original post by apronedsamurai)
    Ok.

    Did you consent to the activity?

    If yes = not rape.

    If no = rape.

    Now, you do realise that you could NOT give consent due to your intoxication, i.e. you were incapitated by the alcohol. Legally then, you were raped.
    Not true, rape also requires the accused to lack reasonable belief in the other's consent. If the alleged victim was obviously drunk beyond the point of having the capacity to consent (agree by choice), and the accused appreciated this to be the case, then yes there is no reasonable belief in consent and rape has been committed. If however, the accused did not believe the alleged victim was this drunk, and that she still had the capacity to consent, then providing that this belief was reasonable (i.e. the alleged victim was not stumbling about and puking everywhere) then he may not be found guilty. It would then depend on whether the alleged victim's signs, such as asking him to put on a condom, constitute 'reasonable belief in consent'.

    Personally I believe this was rape - the guy did not appear to take sufficient steps to make sure that the OP consented (which she clearly did not - consent must be express and unequivocal; wilfully submitting i.e. silence, or not saying no, is NOT consent, plus she seemed so drunk as to lack capacity to consent).
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    (Original post by lawhopefu1)
    Not true, rape also requires the accused to lack reasonable belief in the other's consent. If the alleged victim was obviously drunk beyond the point of having the capacity to consent (agree by choice), and the accused appreciated this to be the case, then yes there is no reasonable belief in consent and rape has been committed. If however, the accused did not believe the alleged victim was this drunk, and that she still had the capacity to consent, then providing that this belief was reasonable (i.e. the alleged victim was not stumbling about and puking everywhere) then he may not be found guilty. It would then depend on whether the alleged victim's signs, such as asking him to put on a condom, constitute 'reasonable belief in consent'.

    Personally I believe this was rape - the guy did not appear to take sufficient steps to make sure that the OP consented (which she clearly did not - consent must be express and unequivocal; wilfully submitting i.e. silence, or not saying no, is NOT consent, plus she seemed so drunk as to lack capacity to consent).
    Sorry, was speaking solely from Scottish law.
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    (Original post by Nameless Ghoul)
    This is simply not true. There are two elements of rape a) where there was lack of consent and b) whether the defendant believed there was consent. Simply having sex, without consent being given, is not enough to form rape.
    To get a conviction, yes, it's a bit more complicated including asking if the defendant has a defence of a reasonable belief in consent. (It'd be lovely to have this man asked what the basis for his belief in consent was: 'Well, she was drunk and vulnerable enough to come to my place even though she made it clear that she wanted to go to hers. When it was obvious that I was going to repeatedly **** her regardless of what she thought, she asked me to use condoms... that's consent, isn't it?')

    But it should be obvious that just because there isn't a conviction doesn't mean that it wasn't - morally - rape. From what's been presented, this is clearly one of those cases. To anyone who's not a rape apologist / going 'well, if that's rape, I'm a rapist too, so it can't be rape', anyway.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    She was sober enough to give him her address and ask that he used a condom. I'd say this is just a complete slapper with morning after regrets who really shouldn't be seeking to blame her appalling lifestyle choices on others.
    He took her to his apartment, so he didn't take her home.

    I would love to show your views to your mother and see what she thinks.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    She was sober enough to give him her address and ask that he used a condom. I'd say this is just a complete slapper with morning after regrets who really shouldn't be seeking to blame her appalling lifestyle choices on others.
    I've been so drunk before that I didn't even remember the entire night but I still somehow gave my friend my address (I don't remember this) so my capability to give my address does not mean that I was sober.

    "appalling lifestyle choices" this was once thanks

    (Original post by Howard)
    Assuming she's talking about seven different occasions this person is living like a pig.
    this is my first thread on this topic thanks
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    (Original post by bethwalker85)
    He took her to his apartment, so he didn't take her home.

    I would love to show your views to your mother and see what she thinks.
    She'd probably agree smh
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I've been so drunk before that I didn't even remember the entire night but I still somehow gave my friend my address (I don't remember this) so my capability to give my address does not mean that I was sober.

    "appalling lifestyle choices" this was once thanks



    this is my first thread on this topic thanks
    Just take some damned responsibility.
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    (Original post by bethwalker85)
    He took her to his apartment, so he didn't take her home.

    I would love to show your views to your mother and see what she thinks.
    That would be some neat trick.
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    (Original post by Nameless Ghoul)
    Who cares about that? We're not barbarians. Hit us up with the English Law.
    Spoiler:
    Show
    And Scots Law looks to the mind of the offender and whether he reasonably believed consent was given. Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2009 s1(1)(b).
    Ok!

    Here is some English law for you:

    "A Hate Incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someones prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender....

    they are being targeted solely because of their personal identity, their actual or perceived racial or ethnic origin, belief or faith.


    (as per The Association of Chief Police Officers and the CPS).

    Denigrating me solely on the basis of my nationality definitely qualifies.
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    Legally speaking it's possible you could peruse him on grounds of intoxication but you'd have to be pretty heartless given that it's clearly been consented to and you never told him to stop.

    You committed an act of disloyalty to your boyfriend and now trying to find a scapegoat i feel.
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    (Original post by apronedsamurai)
    Sorry, was speaking solely from Scottish law.
    In Scotland, the basic consent test is of 'free agreement' rather than the longer one in England and Wales, and 'where the conduct occurs at a time when (the complainant) is incapable because of the effect of alcohol or any other substance of consenting to it' is one of the examples where it's presumed that there wasn't any,

    However there's still a defence of reasonable belief, where 'regard is to be had to whether the person took any steps to ascertain whether there was consent .. and if so, to what those steps were'.
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    (Original post by unprinted)
    To get a conviction, yes, it's a bit more complicated including asking if the defendant has a defence of a reasonable belief in consent. (It'd be lovely to have this man asked what the basis for his belief in consent was: 'Well, she was drunk and vulnerable enough to come to my place even though she made it clear that she wanted to go to hers. When it was obvious that I was going to repeatedly **** her regardless of what she thought, she asked me to use condoms... that's consent, isn't it?'

    But it should be obvious that just because there isn't a conviction doesn't mean that it wasn't - morally - rape. From what's been presented, this is clearly one of those cases. To anyone who's not a rape apologist / going 'well, if that's rape, I'm a rapist too, so it can't be rape', anyway.
    Even in broad moral terms, rape and wrongs require a mental element to be satisfied. Either intention or recklessness. If someone kills your friend, they are not automatically morally culpable purely from the fact they caused it. You'd look to see whether the causer intended to do it, could the causer have done anything differently, was the causer being reckless?

    It is sensible to stop and ask whether the alleged rapist believed consent was not given, morally and legally. It doesn't make me a rape apologist to do this. It makes me a sensible human being.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    So I drank A LOT (at least a litre) and my "friend's" friends put me on a bus and I vaguely remember like talking to everyone on the bus and I met this guy (he was completely sober) and I told him where I lived and he still took me to his apartment. I remember telling him to put on a condom cause I was not about to get pregnant or an STI just because I was drunk. He would stop every so often to "cuddle" and I just remember waking feeling like complete **** and seeing like 3 full condoms on the floor. He wanted to do it "again" in the morning but I kept refusing but he still tried and again I told him to put the condom on;. He wasn't like violent though but he was a complete stranger and was like a decade older than me (he knew my age). He didn't ask me for permission, he'd just stop for a bit if I started crying or stopped saying anything. I feel like I couldn't push him away though because I was smoking his cigarettes and staying at his house so it was essentially my fault for getting that drunk in the first place. And I dont even know if I was up for it or not but most likely not since I didnt even want to do it with my boyfriend when I was sober. He didnt really "force force" me so honestly I'm so confused right now, I literally just got home. I don't THINK I was raped because I dont remember much and it wasn't exactly traumatising like the first time it happened (I was younger). I just feel so dirty and I feel like it was my fault cause I didnt really stop stop him and I didnt go home when I should have and continued to go to his apartment so I did have some sort of control in which direction it could have gone in. I feel sick but I think that is just cause I'm hungover.

    Should I just pretend it didnt happen and move on? One of those drunken mistakes things.
    Yes. Sex between a drunken person and a sober person is rape by the sober person (unless the sober person is female in which case it's only considered sexual assault, because of some horsesh*t law that no-one has bothered to change yet). This is because you cannot legally give consent while drunk. You might have said yes at the time, but that was under the influence of alcohol, which is known to cause people to make stupid decisions. In this case, you were most certainly raped. You don't need to feel bad about it, talk to the police and they'll help you out and get things sorted. It's important that you report it to the police so that this person doesn't do the same to other girls in the future.
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    (Original post by Nameless Ghoul)
    It is sensible to stop and ask whether the alleged rapist believed consent was not given, morally and legally. It doesn't make me a rape apologist to do this. It makes me a sensible human being.
    If you're ever on the receiving end, you might find it hard to distinguish between having a penis put in you without your consent a) when the assailant has what a jury would decide is a reasonable belief in consent and b) when he does not.

    I'm going to suggest that you'd experience both of those as 'being raped', even if the outcome of any trial is different.

    As I said, I would love to hear his explanation of any claimed belief in consent: "I kept refusing but he still tried .. He didn't ask me for permission, he'd just stop for a bit if I started crying or stopped saying anything".
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    I can't believe people on TSR still fall for these threads... If you have been raped, you wouldn't ask the opinion of a website of strangers, you would speak to the police.
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    (Original post by unprinted)
    If you're ever on the receiving end, you might find it hard to distinguish between having a penis put in you without your consent a) when the assailant has what a jury would decide is a reasonable belief in consent and b) when he does not.

    I'm going to suggest that you'd experience both of those as 'being raped', even if the outcome of any trial is different.

    As I said, I would love to hear his explanation of any claimed belief in consent: "I kept refusing but he still tried .. He didn't ask me for permission, he'd just stop for a bit if I started crying or stopped saying anything".
    We are not the victim, though. We're rational third parties. Saying someone has done X, merely because you're emotional, does not mean that that person has done X or that X shares the characteristics of the actual act that person performed. Morally and legally, there has been no rape if there is no wrongful mental aspect to the act.
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    (Original post by richpanda)
    I can't believe people on TSR still fall for these threads... If you have been raped, you wouldn't ask the opinion of a website of strangers, you would speak to the police.
    Not necessarily. People are gregarious.
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    (Original post by richpanda)
    I can't believe people on TSR still fall for these threads... If you have been raped, you wouldn't ask the opinion of a website of strangers, you would speak to the police.
    Wouldn't you? It's anonymous, a chance to speak to people of similar age to you who may have experienced similar issues, and is less personal, time-consuming and binding than filing a report or pressing charges. You can still go to the police after you've heard other peoples' opinions, and TSR offers a chance to do just that.
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    (Original post by Nameless Ghoul)
    Not necessarily. People are gregarious.
    They're damn foolish.

    OP, if what you're saying is true, you haven't been raped.
 
 
 
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