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    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    Respecting someone 'as a person' includes respecting their gender and the name they've asked you to call them.



    Not only is this massively wrong and disgustingly cissexist, it's also hilarious. If penis = man and larger hips = woman then how do you categorise a trans woman who started hormone blockers at the beginning of puberty and then took Oestrogen and so has 'womanly hips' but hasn't had bottom surgery?
    Cissexist, another word into my funny word dictionary.

    I respect your right to go hey guys call me tom now, but I also respect my right to not
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    (Original post by FNPC)
    I've never heard of a company being called he TBH.
    Under this contract, he must do this and that and the other. I see it at least weekly.
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    (Original post by FNPC)
    Ok, I have nothing wrong with trains people just there is something that confuses me.

    Say for example say there is someone that is a boy by birth feels they are a girl, why am I supposed to call them she before they have had surgery? Don't we call someone he/she because of their biological sex not their gender. If we don't then I'll start calling them by what they want, but for now it kinda confuses me.

    Oh also I forgot the name but there are people that want to be called "they". Even if they don't think they are a gender, they still have a biological sex so why shouldn't we call them by that?

    I don't want to hear about respect for what they want, I am just looking at this from the point of view of the English language.

    Of course I WILL respect what they want I just want to know.
    I have never come across anyone who wants to be called 'they', not even on the Internet. I'm pretty sure it's just a tumblr-thing like the 'otherkin' stuff...
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    (Original post by lolakirk)
    I have never come across anyone who wants to be called 'they', not even on the Internet. I'm pretty sure it's just a tumblr-thing like the 'otherkin' stuff...

    It is a thing, but things like being called they or otherkin and headmates and stuff should either be regarded as silly or as a mental illness
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    (Original post by lolakirk)
    I have never come across anyone who wants to be called 'they', not even on the Internet. I'm pretty sure it's just a tumblr-thing like the 'otherkin' stuff...
    My pronoun is they.
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    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    My pronoun is they.
    Seriously, Well why. they is used to indicate more than 1 and you are not more than one
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Seriously, Well why. they is used to indicate more than 1 and you are not more than one
    Singular they.
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    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    Singular they.
    So when somone is talking to you they would say how are they doing, to you.

    ............Right
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    (Original post by lolakirk)
    I have never come across anyone who wants to be called 'they', not even on the Internet. I'm pretty sure it's just a tumblr-thing like the 'otherkin' stuff...
    I know someone who goes by 'they', and I've met them IRL.

    That someone is not SmallTownGirl
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    So when somone is talking to you they would say how are they doing, to you.

    ............Right
    You have used singular they to dispute the use of singular they. I'd heard this happens but it's beautiful to see it in the wild...

    When someone is speaking to ME then they would ask 'How are you?' The same way you would ask anyone. If someone (friend A) wanted to ask someone else (friend B) how I am (maybe I've seen friend B more recently than I've spoken to friend A and friend B mentioned we'd met up) then friend A would ask friend B 'How are they?'
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    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    You have used singular they to dispute the use of singular they. I'd heard this happens but it's beautiful to see it in the wild...

    When someone is speaking to ME then they would ask 'How are you?' The same way you would ask anyone. If someone (friend A) wanted to ask someone else (friend B) how I am (maybe I've seen friend B more recently than I've spoken to friend A and friend B mentioned we'd met up) then friend A would ask friend B 'How are they?'
    That just makes no sense,
    any actual reason to why you did this
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    That just makes no sense,
    any actual reason to why you did this
    But you have literally just used singular they without any problems.

    Because neither 'he' nor 'she' pronouns feel at all comfortable and I like some neopronouns but it's even more difficult to get people to use them than to use singular they.
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    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    But you have literally just used singular they without any problems.

    Because neither 'he' nor 'she' pronouns feel at all comfortable and I like some neopronouns but it's even more difficult to get people to use them than to use singular they.
    Honestly I would not take the time to learn or remember this.
    It just creates confusion
    Male is male
    female is female.
    Pretend to be what you want to be but I do not have to join in with it
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    I don't understand why you're comparing the transgender community to someone wanting to be referred to as an inanimate object/animal. It's nowhere close, and quite frankly, dehumanising for transgender folk. Stop thinking so much about "right" or "wrong" because the topic isn't factual. It's pronouns. Just call somebody by the pronoun that they choose to identify as. It's as simple as that.
    • #1
    #1

    When the english language (and pronouns) were created the notion of gender and biological sex not being the same thing wasn't even a thought. This means when pronouns were created it wasn't actually specified what pronouns did refer to. Bottom line is it's perfectly fine for you to question it from a grammatical viewpoint (in actual fact it helps to discuss these issues rather than making them taboo), but if it makes somebody happy to be referred to via male, female or gender neutral pronouns then good for them. It doesn't hurt anyone else to use them.
    Great thread to start though. Many people shy away from topics like this for fear of being disagreed with, and I truly think that discussions like this are what make all minorities truly accepted and understood in society.
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    Fair enough. If I'm honest I made a new account to start this thread for fear of hate
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    In all honesty it's simply polite to refer to a person as their chosen gender, despite grammatical differences to reality.

    What really pisses me off is when I see a guy/girl and refer to them as such (as never having met them before) and they get all offended and say things like 'how dare you refer to me like that, I identify as a man/woman! Refer to me as such'. Sorry if you haven't told a person in advance on how to refer to you or they don't know you, don't get offender.
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    In all honesty it's simply polite to refer to a person as their chosen gender, despite grammatical differences to reality.

    What really pisses me off is when I see a guy/girl and refer to them as such (as never having met them before) and they get all offended and say things like 'how dare you refer to me like that, I identify as a man/woman! Refer to me as such'. Sorry if you haven't told a person in advance on how to refer to you or they don't know you, don't get offender.
    The easiest way to avoid this is don't assume gender or pronouns. Being misgendered can be scary and invalidating. It can make you feel invisible. It can really affect your mood and your mental health. Use neutral language until you know the terms someone would want you to use. And do this for everyone.
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    (Original post by SmallTownGirl)
    The easiest way to avoid this is don't assume gender or pronouns. Being misgendered can be scary and invalidating. It can make you feel invisible. It can really affect your mood and your mental health. Use neutral language until you know the terms someone would want you to use. And do this for everyone.
    So I have to refer to everyone a gender neutral? Gender neutral terminologies can actually be very be very rude because then you start referring to people as objects instead of people.

    People are going to say offensive things, that are not mean spirited or even anything logically to be offended about. If you accept people may be human and get things wrong on occasion then there is no issue. The main problem I found with dealing with the LGBT and Womens society (they overlapped even in an official capacity) when I was at uni was this culture of being offended about anything with the slightest hint of being offensive. It took around 5 years to get a mens society because until last year it was deemed sexist due to the presumption it would segregate women and involve sexist discussions. It was only when it was highlighted that straight men were banned from the women societies meetings, but gay or transgendered men were not that it was allowed to be created unopposed.
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    (Original post by DanB1991)
    So I have to refer to everyone a gender neutral? Gender neutral terminologies can actually be very be very rude because then you start referring to people as objects instead of people.

    People are going to say offensive things, that are not mean spirited or even anything logically to be offended about. If you accept people may be human and get things wrong on occasion then there is no issue. The main problem I found with dealing with the LGBT and Womens society (they overlapped even in an official capacity) when I was at uni was this culture of being offended about anything with the slightest hint of being offensive. It took around 5 years to get a mens society because until last year it was deemed sexist due to the presumption it would segregate women and involve sexist discussions. It was only when it was highlighted that straight men were banned from the women societies meetings, but gay or transgendered men were not that it was allowed to be created unopposed.
    What 'gender neutral' language are you using that implies someone isn't human. Use words like 'person' and 'they'.

    When people cause harm it doesn't matter whether they meant to or not, they've still caused harm. And they should do their best to avoid causing harm in the future. What you see is you misgendering one person once. Whereas that person might experience that several times a day. It gets very difficult when you're constantly dealing with that shock and having to explain to people what your identity is. Especially when lots of people argue with you or say it's too complicated for them to respect you. If someone from a marginalised or oppressed group that you are not part of says something is offensive or oppressive or harmful to that group of people you should NEVER argue with them. Accept that that isn't your identity so your opinion is entirely irrelevant.
 
 
 
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