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    (Original post by Cobalt_)
    I agree, the many different faiths and lack of faith makes this world very interesting. Now if only we could all get along and sip tea on a warm summers day.
    If only we could all agree to disagree. For some people that's a horrifying concept.
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    (Original post by CorpusLuteum)
    It's very understandable why many ex-muslims have left their religion because to be fair, not all muslims have a true grasp on what Islam is and some uneducated muslim parents decide to preach it incorrectly by teaching hate towards those who aren't a mirror image of them. As well as this, there are many aspects of the quran which are being taught to muslims as though they're word for word rules to abide by when really - just like any other piece of literature - the quran uses all sorts of literary devices.
    True grasp on what Islam is?
    I used to love the deen when it about brotherhood, helping out people (Muslims and non Muslims alike). However, the more I learnt about it, the worse it became.

    Seriously, forget all the Aisha and other cliches used to discredit Islam. Look at the permissibility of concubines instead, does this come from the perfect creator? I remember watching a 3 hour lecture about that (slavery in Islam) and a lot of things were justified with "it was better than what others at the time would have done". He even had the cheek to say slavery ended partly because of Islam (lololol).

    The idea that Muslims are the only ones that go to jannah is also absurd, considering less than a quarter of the world are Muslim. Tbf, some scholars say that if people don't know about the deen or have a limited understanding of the deen they will be judged "fairly"... But it also say whoever dies upon shirk will go to hell. What happens if someone dies upon shirk and doesn't know about Islam? Allah only seems just if you're a Muslim.

    Every religious person believes they're 100% right, and Muslims are the same. That's why I don't feel the need to allign myself with a religion (unless I'm given undoubtable proof which I'm yet to come across)
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    (Original post by Kraixo)
    I already explained why their views are more valid, not sure why it is so hard to understand, shows your sincerity as your denial of them being more knowlegable, wheras you accept that the opinion of a docktor on medical stuff is more valid then a average humans regardless of them being able to make mistakes.

    A sunni scholar will provide evidences using the Quran and authenticated sunnah/hadith which is the correct way.

    Yes humans do tend to go with what they feel more comfortable with. But a true muslim, (the whole point of being muslim is to submit to god) will go against his desires and follow the instructions based on the Quran and sunnah. Eg. the quran tells muslims to not engage in sex before marriage, if muslims really interpereted based on their whims and desires they would have never interpereted the quran to be saying dont have sex before marriage, a simple example.
    You're biased and selective yourself. Shias use hadiths too and practices like Mutah which Sunnis seem to despise was in fact allowed by Muhammad himself at a point. Whether it was abolished or not is where the difference lies. That's just one example.

    As I said, the doctor analogy is pretty weird and I don't see how it's comparable. Maybe use a historian or other academic profession.

    The rulings were made by men, to be implemented by men so they can dictate men (and women).
    Going along with the example you gave, what's your thoughts on apostasy and should those who leave Islam be sentenced to death?

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    (Original post by Cobalt_)
    Sign me up.
    Congratulations!

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    (Original post by Lord Gaben)
    Congratulations!

    You are now Member #2 of the Church of Gaben
    Who's number one?
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    True grasp on what Islam is?
    I used to love the deen when it about brotherhood, helping out people (Muslims and non Muslims alike). However, the more I learnt about it, the worse it became.

    Seriously, forget all the Aisha and other cliches used to discredit Islam. Look at the permissibility of concubines instead, does this come from the perfect creator? I remember watching a 3 hour lecture about that (slavery in Islam) and a lot of things were justified with "it was better than what others at the time would have done". He even had the cheek to say slavery ended partly because of Islam (lololol).

    The idea that Muslims are the only ones that go to jannah is also absurd, considering less than a quarter of the world are Muslim. Tbf, some scholars say that if people don't know about the deen or have a limited understanding of the deen they will be judged "fairly"... But it also say whoever dies upon shirk will go to hell. What happens if someone dies upon shirk and doesn't know about Islam? Allah only seems just if you're a Muslim.

    Every religious person believes they're 100% right, and Muslims are the same. That's why I don't feel the need to allign myself with a religion (unless I'm given undoubtable proof which I'm yet to come across)
    There is gender equality in Islam however people use Islam (especially saudi's) to justify their sexism.
    In Islam it is not believed that only muslims will go to Jannah. In fact it seems completely irrational to say that when god has allowed so many other faiths to co-exist in the world. Everyone is judged on their way of life and their loyalty to their religion. In the end most majority religions follow the idea of one god.

    A lot of scholars who give lectures are not well educated and are usually in no place to talk about religion.
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    (Original post by Cobalt_)
    My background? Jesus didnt know I was handing you my CV for a job.

    Parents dont know. Islam is a lot of things but being respectful if you leave isnt one. (Partly culture, mainly religion <- before someone starts that argument)
    The thread did say full details so it was somewhat relevant. As you wish
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    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    Who's number one?
    That'll be me. Lord Gaben of Gabistan.

    Would love to have you on board if you're interested in being Member #3.
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    (Original post by Cobalt_)
    Also dont assume the reason I left Islam is due to knowledge. I read the Quran and Hadith and was extremely religious. I left because I knew too much, I saw the faults and errors within the belief system.

    No hate btw but respect other peoples beliefs rather than assuming they left based on lack of knowledge.
    It's very interesting you say that because every ex-muslim I know are actually people who once used to be extremely religious but attributes their loss of belief for knowing "too much" as you put it.

    Actually I am very close to them and like she still puts a scarf over her head whenever she hears the call to prayer for some reason which is kind of funny - do you still do things like that out of habit or something?

    Also if you don't mind my asking what was your interpretation of the Quran like? What were your take on what the Qurans stance for homosexuality, apostasy, gender equality, views on non-muslims like back when you were a muslim? (Not to debate you but curious)

    And yeah I too think people should respect others belief, or lack thereof, and I do thinks its annoying whenever a ex muslim says oh I'm an ex muslim and people try and reconcile them with religion again. I do think it's okay to be curious and ask them why they left, however it's not to try and shove it back down their throat.

    (I'm from a judea-christian background myself although raised by a single atheist mother but converted to Islam like 2-3 months ago). So it's nice to see the other side of things.
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    (Original post by Lord Gaben)
    That'll be me. Lord Gaben of Gabistan.

    Would love to have you on board if you're interested in being Member #3.
    i seek to be 4
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    (Original post by CorpusLuteum)
    Lol, exactly what I mean:

    'who cares about which foot is used to step into the toilet'

    Where do some of these 'scholars' come up with these guidelines. They all sound particularly silly.
    You have a point there, it is silly. Most come from the hadith rather than the Quran.

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    (Original post by TelAviv)
    i seek to be 4
    Congratulations TelAviv!

    You are now Member #4 of the Church of Gaben.
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    (Original post by macsalaama)
    You have a point there, it is silly. Most come from the hadith rather than the Quran.

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    Yeah, and we shouldn't forget that all these texts are from ages ago so they may have been altered therefore we must abide by what seems logical and humane because that's what Islam encourages but some have made religion more of a maze rather than a simple way of peace and humbleness.
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    (Original post by CorpusLuteum)
    There is gender equality in Islam however people use Islam (especially saudi's) to justify their sexism.
    In Islam it is not believed that only muslims will go to Jannah. In fact it seems completely irrational to say that when god has allowed so many other faiths to co-exist in the world. Everyone is judged on their way of life and their loyalty to their religion. In the end most majority religions follow the idea of one god.

    A lot of scholars who give lectures are not well educated and are usually in no place to talk about religion.
    Gender equality? Really? Women aren't allowed to walk around without a chaperone, if they constantly sin they're husband is allowed to beat them (it does say lightly but it's still wrong). Who keeps the men in check? Themselves...??

    What about a kind hearted atheist? Or a kind hearted good idol worshipper? Why does believing in one creator make you eligible to going to heaven?

    If scholars can't talk about religion who can? LOL! Maybe God should've made the religion easy for everyone to understand because it seems like no one's allowed to talk about the religion
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    Gender equality? Really? Women aren't allowed to walk around without a chaperone, if they constantly sin they're husband is allowed to beat them (it does say lightly but it's still wrong). Who keeps the men in check? Themselves...??

    What about a kind hearted atheist? Or a kind hearted good idol worshipper? Why does believing in one creator make you eligible to going to heaven?

    If scholars can't talk about religion who can? LOL! Maybe God should've made the religion easy for everyone to understand because it seems like no one's allowed to talk about the religion
    Men aren't allowed to beat women. What the heck have you been reading?
    Because we know nothing on the earth itself could have created the universe that's why. An atheist can still go to heaven, am I God to tell you who can and who can't?

    Anyone can talk about religion, but not everyone is saying something valid or correct.
    Religion is easy but some people make it hard y introducing things which don't have a place within religion.
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    (Original post by CorpusLuteum)
    Yeah, and we shouldn't forget that all these texts are from ages ago so they may have been altered therefore we must abide by what seems logical and humane because that's what Islam encourages but some have made religion more of a maze rather than a simple way of peace and humbleness.
    I like your train of thought, I used to believe the same until the concept of God became too difficult to believe in.

    Do you believe the hadith are necessary to understand the Quran? In either case, what's your thoughts on how they were compiled and collected?
    Even the Quran was compiled long after Muhammad died which (imo) leaves room for error.

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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    Gender equality? Really? Women aren't allowed to walk around without a chaperone, if they constantly sin they're husband is allowed to beat them (it does say lightly but it's still wrong). Who keeps the men in check? Themselves...??

    What about a kind hearted atheist? Or a kind hearted good idol worshipper? Why does believing in one creator make you eligible to going to heaven?

    If scholars can't talk about religion who can? LOL! Maybe God should've made the religion easy for everyone to understand because it seems like no one's allowed to talk about the religion
    My friend, God keeps the men in check.

    The wife beating isn't even limited to sinning, if a woman disobeys her husband he eventually hit her. When you look at marriage in Islam, a woman is handed over by her father to her husband. She's never really free at any point.
    Disclaimer: I know this doesn't happen all the time but theoretically speaking that is really what marriage is.

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    (Original post by hilrho)
    It's very interesting you say that because every ex-muslim I know are actually people who once used to be extremely religious but attributes their loss of belief for knowing "too much" as you put it.

    Actually I am very close to them and like she still puts a scarf over her head whenever she hears the call to prayer for some reason which is kind of funny - do you still do things like that out of habit or something?

    Also if you don't mind my asking what was your interpretation of the Quran like? What were your take on what the Qurans stance for homosexuality, apostasy, gender equality, views on non-muslims like back when you were a muslim? (Not to debate you but curious)

    And yeah I too think people should respect others belief, or lack thereof, and I do thinks its annoying whenever a ex muslim says oh I'm an ex muslim and people try and reconcile them with religion again. I do think it's okay to be curious and ask them why they left, however it's not to try and shove it back down their throat.

    (I'm from a judea-christian background myself although raised by a single atheist mother but converted to Islam like 2-3 months ago). So it's nice to see the other side of things.
    Congrats.

    I know this wasn't directed at me but my stance on the above were pretty conservative eventhough in my heart I saw nothing wrong with homosexuality and apostasy. (Most of the time I would just put it on the back of my mind). I believed it was blasphemes to think parts of the religion were wrong (shows God is infallible) so I told myself everything in the Quran and authentic Hadith were right, until I rejected it all. My views on gender equality and non-Muslim were normal though.
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    (Original post by CorpusLuteum)
    Men aren't allowed to beat women. What the heck have you been reading?
    Because we know nothing on the earth itself could have created the universe that's why. An atheist can still go to heaven, am I God to tell you who can and who can't?

    Anyone can talk about religion, but not everyone is saying something valid or correct.
    Religion is easy but some people make it hard y introducing things which don't have a place within religion.
    Do you want me to bring you the evidence for the permissibility of beating your wife?

    I would have said EXACTLY the same before I knew about it aswell lol.
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    (Original post by macsalaama)
    I like your train of thought, I used to believe the same until the concept of God became too difficult to believe in.

    Do you believe the hadith are necessary to understand the Quran? In either case, what's your thoughts on how they were compiled and collected?
    Even the Quran was compiled long after Muhammad died which (imo) leaves room for error.

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    Yeah, the reason christianity is more appealing is that God is a more loving character however in Islam you're taught that if you do one thing wrong then a list of bad things will happen to you. However in the quran it is said very frequently that:

    Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."

    So I (imo) muslims need to grasp that more than the fact they feel some sort of guilt for everyone 'sinning' when really the quran teaches you - if there's nothing to be done about it then it's not your business anymore man.

    Muslims need to invest time in bettering themselves and not trying to enforce sharia in a christian country and **** like that.

    I think some of the Hadiths are necessary but they must be looked at throughout sunni and shia sources to find the one that appeals most to islamic values. I don't think anyone should personally approve a hadith until they have read all documents of it. Personally, I think a lot of the hadiths have a lot of errors because lots of bias must have been present after the death of the prophet (i.e. sunni's, shias, whatever). Some may not even be true but as long as they encourage good then it's fine.
 
 
 
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