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Switzerland Suspends Citizenship process for Muslim Family Watch

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    I'm actually on the Swiss side here, it's culture, and they want to preserve their culture. Some things doesn't have to be written in Law book for it to be followed in daily life.

    I'm pretty sure Swiss people try to cover up when they go to Iran or certain Arabic countries as a respect for their culture.

    It's like you take it or leave it. If you don't want to shake hand, go study, live in Saudi, full of understanding muslims.

    it's a bit selfish to have everything working for you.

    I just remembered there was another topic from news how one guy blamed Morrison that they put ham and cheese pasty into cheese and onion bag...It's basic human error, people in there work hard everyday, they have new people coming and leaving, work mistakes happen... it's not that Morrison knew that in that specific shop that night muslim guy will buy pasty and they did it on purpose to piss him off. Neither it was global packaging mistake.

    Any person, no matter religion, race, origin of birth, just because you fit there doesn't mean you belong there. Stop demanding "exclusive" rights.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    re b) why should a women simply accept someone refusing to shake her hands because of her sex?

    As a society we've come a long way over this issue so why should we allow it to go backwards to appease those who don't even come from the country?

    Slightly different re hygiene as all people would be treated the same

    But these are not similar to refusing to shake a persons hand simply because of their sex.

    Would you accept it if someone refused to shake the hand of black people but would shake the hands of white people (this is more comparable)
    You've slightly misinterpreted what I meant there...

    As you have said, we have come a far way as a society, but if someone (who isn't from the country) decides to be rude then why bother with someone like that?

    Re your question no I would not accept it, but rather than give someone stupid enough to discriminate by someones colour my/others time and attention I'd rather just tell them they're stupid and move on.

    Re the actual article... if you read the article again you'll realise they did not directly refuse to shake a teacher's hand. They notified the school's officials first. And they were told to not shake male hands either, I think this was a fair way to deal with the situation.

    Also if politicians believed this was the wrong approach then they should have used their power to ensure the school's officials and everyone else was educated to the point where they understand this Swiss custom.

    Simply throwing a fit and rejecting a family doesn't demonstrate the same qualities of a society which allowed women more equal rights.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    This is so stupid honestly.
    The boys didn't shake their teachers hand for religious reasons. Get over it and move on.
    Do you think that all kinds of behaviour can be justified by citing 'religious reasons?' :holmes:
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    (Original post by Kieran1996)
    You've slightly misinterpreted what I meant there...

    As you have said, we have come a far way as a society, but if someone (who isn't from the country) decides to be rude then why bother with someone like that?

    Re your question no I would not accept it, but rather than give someone stupid enough to discriminate by someones colour my/others time and attention I'd rather just tell them they're stupid and move on.

    Re the actual article... if you read the article again you'll realise they did not directly refuse to shake a teacher's hand. They notified the school's officials first. And they were told to not shake male hands either, I think this was a fair way to deal with the situation.

    Also if politicians believed this was the wrong approach then they should have used their power to ensure the school's officials and everyone else was educated to the point where they understand this Swiss custom.

    Simply throwing a fit and rejecting a family doesn't demonstrate the same qualities of a society which allowed women more equal rights.
    Didn't intend to sorry.

    but as you say they don't have to offer citizenship to idiots and rightly so this one has been identified as an idiot.

    But to confirm they accepted it would be sexist to comply with the request hence the instruction not to shake male hands as well (which IMO is rather a cop out)

    But I believe it does end the correct message in that this is the way we do things you want to be part of use this is the way you will do things after all they are not being forced to become citizens of the country.

    And your right re the shaking of a black persons hand but the answer to that is not to tell them not to shake Asian hands as well so it doesn't look so bad.
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    (Original post by digistar_100)
    Ridiculous from the Swiss. In other countries it's "culture" to greet someone with a kiss/peck on either cheek. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable doing that, why force an ultimately meaningless action of a greeting like that on someone. What's wrong with "Hello how are you. Im fine with a smiley face." Hope this gets overturned.
    Nobody's forcing them to do it, unless you think that they are somehow entitled to Swiss citizenship as a right. Perhaps you should go to Muslim-majority countries and campaign for the right of non-citizens there to both receive citizenship and refuse to integrate, if you're being honest about your motives for siding with the family in this instance. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Didn't intend to sorry.

    but as you say they don't have to offer citizenship to idiots and rightly so this one has been identified as an idiot.

    But to confirm they accepted it would be sexist to comply with the request hence the instruction not to shake male hands as well (which IMO is rather a cop out)

    But I believe it does end the correct message in that this is the way we do things you want to be part of use this is the way you will do things after all they are not being forced to become citizens of the country.

    And your right re the shaking of a black persons hand but the answer to that is not to tell them not to shake Asian hands as well so it doesn't look so bad.
    I agree that it was definitely a cop out by the school officials :afraid:

    In then end it all depends on what they do if a similar situation occurred, as long as it is the same response then it will be viewed as fair and people will be able to see what Swiss culture agrees/disagrees with.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Do you think that all kinds of behaviour can be justified by citing 'religious reasons?' :holmes:
    The issue with with religion is there are two parks (well three):

    Park one: religion is real and worthwhile

    Park two: religion is not required and I can do as I wish

    Park three: :bl:

    So to some people the answer to that question is yes as long as "religion says" I can do this then yes I can but to other that answer would be greeted with "are you an idiot?"...
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    (Original post by Kieran1996)
    The issue with with religion is there are two parks (well three):

    Park one: religion is real and worthwhile

    Park two: religion is not required and I can do as I wish

    Park three: :bl:

    So to some people the answer to that question is yes as long as "religion says" I can do this then yes I can but to other that answer would be greeted with "are you an idiot?"...
    Yes, but the trouble with park one is that its inhabitants often have a moral code of their own that they wouldn't want violated if the circumstances were different.

    So, many of the Muslim members in that park would be heavily in favour of the authorities if the story was about a Muslim-majority country denying citizenship to somebody who refused to show even the desire to integrate on religious grounds (e.g. if they claimed to be part of a religion which had public nudity as a central tenet). They are not defending this family out of some principled commitment to have states accommodate the religious beliefs of those who apply for citizenship at all costs; they're tribalists, acting tribally. And for that reason, their complaints here are nothing more than meaningless apologia.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-muslim-family

    'Switzerland has suspended the citizenship process for the family of two teenage Muslim brothers after the boys’ refusal to shake hands with their female teachers sparked a national debate over religious freedoms.

    The brothers, aged 14 and 15, had informed education officials in the northern municipality of Therwil that physical contact with women who are not family members violated their faith.

    They were then exempted from a Swiss custom of pupils shaking teachers’ hands, with Therwil officials instructing them to avoid contact with male teachers as well to avoid gender discrimination.

    But the compromise sparked a heated response from leading Swiss politicians including the justice minister, Simonetta Sommaruga, who insisted that “shaking hands is part of [Swiss] culture”.

    On Tuesday, authorities in the canton of Basel-Country where Therwil is located, said that naturalisation proceedings for the family had been put on hold.'

    Glad to see some common sense being applied to situations like this

    Hope we get to see more of this in the future

    Switzerland does not want to have their culture dominated by Islam rules.
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    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    I know right? How petty and pathetic do you have to be to not shake someone's hand, based solely on a randomly assigned chromosome at birth? :rolleyes:
    Not as pathetic as the people who are continuously whining about this, and if the handshake was such a big deal :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Not as pathetic as the people who are continuously whining about this, and if the handshake was such a big deal :rolleyes:
    In Swiss culture refusing a handshake is a big deal.
    And in Western communities gender discrimination is a big deal.
    :2in1:
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Not as pathetic as the people who are continuously whining about this, and if the handshake was such a big deal :rolleyes:
    It evidently is a big deal to the Swiss, you know, the people of the country in question :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Not as pathetic as the people who are continuously whining about this, and if the handshake was such a big deal :rolleyes:
    and if the handshake was such a big deal
    Yeah it is not, but this muslim kid made a big deal out of not giving a handshake, I think that if you cant simply handshake somone due to their sex you really should go back to a country that has this backwards view.


    Good on you sweeden
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    and if the handshake was such a big deal
    Yeah it is not, but this muslim kid made a big deal out of not giving a handshake, I think that if you cant simply handshake somone due to their sex you really should go back to a country that has this backwards view.


    Good on you sweeden
    Good on the Muslim boys for sticking to their religious beliefs and refusing the handshake. Masha Allah.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Good on the Muslim boys for sticking to their religious beliefs and refusing the handshake. Masha Allah.
    Good on the Muslims Boys Sticking to their backwards beliefs and refusing something so normal and respectful.
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    (Original post by AperfectBalance)
    Good on the Muslims Boys Sticking to their backwards beliefs and refusing something so normal and respectful.
    Haha
    I would have done the same thing.
    Too bad the UK can't do anything about it.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Do you think that all kinds of behaviour can be justified by citing 'religious reasons?' :holmes:
    Only if the religion in question aligns with her own
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Haha
    I would have done the same thing.
    Too bad the UK can't do anything about it.
    Serious question, with no insults or anything. I'm just really confused.
    Why do your Islamic customs trump the customs of the host country?
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    Haha
    I would have done the same thing.
    Too bad the UK can't do anything about it.
    Disgusting, behavior like that does not belong in the modern world,
    You think If I said I will not shake a Muslims hand as he is dirty I would probably be arrested or cautioned.
    If I would not shake a black persons hand as he is dirty I would probably be arrested or cautioned.
    All of these behaviors do not belong in the modern world, and If you cant handle it as you hide behind words of a long dead and possibly fictitious man you should not be in the modern world
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    (Original post by Zargabaath)
    Serious question, with no insults or anything. I'm just really confused.
    Why do your Islamic customs trump the customs of the host country?
    I respect and abide by the laws of the country I live in. However I will not compromise my religion for any customs.
 
 
 
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