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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Isn't this a tad unreasonable? I mean, you're using specific incidents with certain groups of people to define an entire race. I'm sure if British and American citizens started sweeping into Easter Europe and Asia because of some crisis (although this would never happen), you'd get similar cases occurring. Not everybody from the countries in question are good people and the same goes for any country in the West. Everybody is just scared and freaking out, which is understandable, but you must accept that that's as far as your protest goes. The West shoulders this because it is partially to blame for the events arising in the first place. Not to mention that many of the people moving into the West from the Middle East have no intention of causing such chaos and harm - they simply have no where else to go and have lost everything. Don't tell me we wouldn't do the same should it happen to us. When they all or at least the majority start behaving in this one particular manner, then your point will have significant validity. However, until then, I'm sorry but it just does not hold.

    There needs to be control, there needs to be regulation, and there needs to be a process. Just saying "no" is not helping anything. The sweeping perception of Islam and Middle Eastern people is not going to be helped by far-right policy, it's only going to be made worse. The majority of these people haven't done anything wrong. They have had their lives completely obliterated by war. We cry about Paris and Brussels whilst they are experiencing such bombings every single day. If it was going on in France, Belgium, Germany, England - everybody would be in absolute hysterics if countries weren't helping. They need a chance to integrate and the people who do cause chaos, who do rape, who do murder, should be removed or imprisoned just as anybody else who commits such crimes should be. We need to move away from associating solely these people with those actions - it happens everyday in the West and the East with no discrimination. It's only being given attention by the media because this is a point of a complete and utter breakdown in order and a time of crisis in the world.

    Now, I'm not moaning at you at all or trying to intimidate you and cause a row but your comments on these issues, like many others on this site, are very unreasonable. Regardless of whether or not they are opinions, we have the right to agree and disagree.
    No it is not.

    Men and women escape hell in Syria and elsewhere, only for the very same men to create a possibly even bigger hell for the women. It is fact that asylum shelters are a place of rape (and forced prostitution but that is also rape). How despicable is that, they escape together and then they treat the women like that? And the collective of migrants allows this to happen - some are the perpetrators, some buy the services, and the rest do nothing.

    I am by no means voting for the right, if anything I am a leftie (though I admit there are some aspects of the left that ire me), BUT:

    a) There are too many immigrants to deal with,
    b) They have a too, let's just call it culture, different culture to ours. They hold values that we do not, and in my opinion are filth, in particular with regards to how they treat women,
    c) They do not speak the language.

    Yes, there will be some success stories of immigrants, no doubt. But point a) means that b) and c) become too big of a problem.

    Not to mention the way political correctness has eroded our ability to speak out. I am sure I will be labelled a racist just for stating the truth about rape. And that means politicians will not address the problem - just look at Cologne, the police did not mention the background of the perps, the media did not, the politicians tried to put pressure on everyone not to. Disgusting. Just disgusting.
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    But you don't live in the real world because you believe that the actions of a few illustrate the actions of the masses. That is illogical. It's basic stereotyping. And don't give me none of this 'left wing/leftist/the liberals' ********, speak plainly and not like you're trying to prove you understand politics, or not at all.
    The Army Of Darkness is on the lawn of the fortress and your arguing about whether we should close the drawbridge.
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    (Original post by brainhuman)
    No it is not.

    Men and women escape hell in Syria and elsewhere, only for the very same men to create a possibly even bigger hell for the women. It is fact that asylum shelters are a place of rape (and forced prostitution but that is also rape). How despicable is that, they escape together and then they treat the women like that? And the collective of migrants allows this to happen - some are the perpetrators, some buy the services, and the rest do nothing.

    I am by no means voting for the right, if anything I am a leftie (though I admit there are some aspects of the left that ire me), BUT:

    a) There are too many immigrants to deal with,
    b) They have a too, let's just call it culture, different culture to ours. They hold values that we do not, and in my opinion are filth, in particular with regards to how they treat women,
    c) They do not speak the language.

    Yes, there will be some success stories of immigrants, no doubt. But point a) means that b) and c) become too big of a problem.

    Not to mention the way political correctness has eroded our ability to speak out. I am sure I will be labelled a racist just for stating the truth about rape. And that means politicians will not address the problem - just look at Cologne, the police did not mention the background of the perps, the media did not, the politicians tried to put pressure on everyone not to. Disgusting. Just disgusting.
    Okay, if that is your opinion then I respect that. However, I disagree unreservedly.

    Again, you say 'the men' - you are making a sweeping generalisation. Prostitution and rape come at a time of significant hardship and disorder, such as now. Why do you think German women were raped when Berlin fell to the West and the Red Army? Because there was no order, it could happen, and it did. People took what they wanted. In desperate times, people are pushed into such sexually deviant practices to make money. I think it's disgusting, as you do. However, the difference between us is that I am not saying that everyone does it, you are implying that through this opinion, and I am offering light on why these things occur now. You are not. You are simply saying it happens because it's them. Well, no, read some history books about times of specific breakdowns in order and you will begin to see that things like this are a pattern.

    I don't actually care very much what your political affiliation is - I myself am not a far left-wing supporter, I am more of a centrist.

    a). I agree. However, they are coming because they can and they will regardless. As such, we are dealing with the situation as best we can.

    b). Their culture is very different but again, this goes back to my comment about giving people a chance to integrate. Our policies, values and laws are not changing. As such, I don't think this is particularly alarming. They will have to adapt or will face prison or deportation, that's the truth of it.

    c). They can learn the language. This was hardly a situation where they were in the position to say to themselves, "Oh, I'll be off to Europe next year - I had best learn English/French/German/Dutch" or whatever it is. This comment is, therefore, entirely unreasonable.

    There are success stories. The media only ever reports the bad and not the good - nobody wants to hear the good and they enjoy the dramatic attention they receive.

    Political correctness has not prevented anybody's ability to have a voice. Political correctness prevents hatred or again, chaos. It prevents people making comments that have the potential to do a lot of damage. Integration and so on are things made so much more difficult when people are being this stubborn and difficult. If you want integration and you want them to adapt, let them. Stop blocking it and then complaining. Those that do not probably won't be here long. Our country runs the way our country runs - that will not change for these immigrants. I don't believe you are racist, I believe your argument is simply flawed. Politicians are addressing the problem - you simply don't realise that what they're doing is that because you don't agree on what the issue is and therefore, that the right action is being taken. Politicians have a very difficult job and will not be able to please everybody.

    With regards to what happened in Cologne, I agree. It was disgusting and the conduct of Merkel and the local authorities was utterly shameful - they have a duty to their own first. However, that is one example the world will not let go of and will use to set an example. I also suspect that they refrained from naming the group and so on to prevent further problems and people doing exactly what you are doing and stereotyping the masses. It does not make the situation easier. It complicates everything.
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    (Original post by TheSuingEU)
    The Army Of Darkness is on the lawn of the fortress and your arguing about whether we should close the drawbridge.
    Right.

    (Original post by Tyreke)
    I agree with some sentiments in your post. However, we must remind ourselves to question and be critical of how the media portray the migrant crisis.

    The majority of migrants are not from a warzone. They are economic migrants and became criminals as soon as they illegally crossed multiple borders. If I illegally crossed the border in to Pakistan from India, I would expect to be shot.

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/...ts-syria/21625
    I am currently reading this webpage you have linked me to but I must say, I do find the statistics troubling. They focus predominantly on the years preceding the current crisis - 2014 backwards. How can I really use them in this situation? Also, if you refer to the pie chart, European countries are rejecting far more asylum seekers and refugees than they are taking in. This demonstrates control. I will continue to read them - my view may change.
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    We get it, you love refugee ****, you don't need to type paragraphs making excuses for them.
    I have never met a refugee in my life and I am making a solid argument in response to what was put to me. Don't try to insult me through homophobic slurs. If you have nothing constructive or decent to say, refrain from giving your input at all.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Except its short sighted and wont work because it just pushes the problem onto its nehighbours. thats not an attack from the left, its just common sense.
    Not really. Its neighbours like Sweden, Germany and Greece have publicly invited these migrants. If they want them they can have them. I don't see why countries who sent out no invitation should bare the burden. Let countries like Germany have them
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Right.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSsJHc8wLvw
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    I have never met a refugee in my life and I am making a solid argument in response to what was put to me. Don't try to insult me through homophobic slurs. If you have nothing constructive or decent to say, refrain from giving your input at all.
    I have a question for you. Now I know there are low chances you will answer it but I just want a yes or a no.

    Do you think Islam is a peaceful religion? Yes or No?
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    (Original post by Omen96)
    I have a question for you. Now I know there are low chances you will answer it but I just want a yes or a no.

    Do you think Islam is a peaceful religion? Yes or No?
    What makes you say that? I'm making seriously solid arguments, I have no idea why people are being so ****ing irritating about this.

    I do not think Islam is by and large peaceful, no. However, I believe this is down to interpretation of the Qur'an and other things. I think religion generally does a great deal of harm but I do know many muslims who are actually some of the best people I have ever had the good fortune to meet. Does that or does that not, answer your question?
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    What makes you say that? I'm making seriously solid arguments, I have no idea why people are being so ****ing irritating about this.

    I do not think Islam is by and large peaceful, no. However, I believe this is down to interpretation of the Qur'an and other things. I think religion generally does a great deal of harm but I do know many muslims who are actually some of the best people I have ever had the good fortune to meet. Does that or does that not, answer your question?
    So when are you turning your girlfriend over for Muhammad to use?
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    (Original post by ivybridge)
    Okay, if that is your opinion then I respect that. However, I disagree unreservedly.

    Again, you say 'the men' - you are making a sweeping generalisation. Prostitution and rape come at a time of significant hardship and disorder, such as now. Why do you think German women were raped when Berlin fell to the West and the Red Army? Because there was no order, it could happen, and it did. People took what they wanted. In desperate times, people are pushed into such sexually deviant practices to make money. I think it's disgusting, as you do. However, the difference between us is that I am not saying that everyone does it, you are implying that through this opinion, and I am offering light on why these things occur now. You are not. You are simply saying it happens because it's them. Well, no, read some history books about times of specific breakdowns in order and you will begin to see that things like this are a pattern.

    I don't actually care very much what your political affiliation is - I myself am not a far left-wing supporter, I am more of a centrist.

    a). I agree. However, they are coming because they can and they will regardless. As such, we are dealing with the situation as best we can.

    b). Their culture is very different but again, this goes back to my comment about giving people a chance to integrate. Our policies, values and laws are not changing. As such, I don't think this is particularly alarming. They will have to adapt or will face prison or deportation, that's the truth of it.

    c). They can learn the language. This was hardly a situation where they were in the position to say to themselves, "Oh, I'll be off to Europe next year - I had best learn English/French/German/Dutch" or whatever it is. This comment is, therefore, entirely unreasonable.

    There are success stories. The media only ever reports the bad and not the good - nobody wants to hear the good and they enjoy the dramatic attention they receive.

    Political correctness has not prevented anybody's ability to have a voice. Political correctness prevents hatred or again, chaos. It prevents people making comments that have the potential to do a lot of damage. Integration and so on are things made so much more difficult when people are being this stubborn and difficult. If you want integration and you want them to adapt, let them. Stop blocking it and then complaining. Those that do not probably won't be here long. Our country runs the way our country runs - that will not change for these immigrants. I don't believe you are racist, I believe your argument is simply flawed. Politicians are addressing the problem - you simply don't realise that what they're doing is that because you don't agree on what the issue is and therefore, that the right action is being taken. Politicians have a very difficult job and will not be able to please everybody.

    With regards to what happened in Cologne, I agree. It was disgusting and the conduct of Merkel and the local authorities was utterly shameful - they have a duty to their own first. However, that is one example the world will not let go of and will use to set an example. I also suspect that they refrained from naming the group and so on to prevent further problems and people doing exactly what you are doing and stereotyping the masses. It does not make the situation easier. It complicates everything.
    I am sorry, but you are simply put wrong. I don't deny rape occurs elsewhere. But in a culture that is still based on archaic, patriarchial writings that consider women as property, it is only logical even, that it occurs more. You are quite right about the order part, it occurs more now than with order because they can get away with it more easily, but the fact remains, and I refer you to below on my part about Sweden, that it is much more common with them.

    a) They are coming? Isn't that why Merkel is bending over for Erdogan so he stops them in Turkey?

    b) "Our policies, values and laws are not changing" - they always are. You think gay marriage could even have been thought a remote possibly 50 years ago? And that is the thing with Islam - it is resistant to change. It does not want change and it integrates so deeply into the culture of its followers that it is a huge problem compared to our values. Please note that I am specifically saying Islam (the ideology) not Muslims (the people) because I do believe that some Muslims will find a way to adapt. But it is simple fact that you can see by looking at predominantly Muslim countries, that they overwhelmingly have a culture that is heavily influenced by the teachings of Muhammed. As did we - the Church used to have a much bigger role in culture and society. The only difference is we managed to progress. They haven't and it doesn't look like they will or even want to.

    c) Yes they can - but that is why I mentioned a) there are too many to provide integration courses including language lessons. I would have no problem with a smaller number of immigrants. I even believe it is our moral duty to help. But we have to be realistic here, and if we are we must admit that this will not end up well.

    PC is a piece of...sorry but it's true. Google rape in Sweden - the government is so scared of being labelled racist and admitting its failed integration policies that it does not address the issue. By being scared of bringing up sensitive issues, you ignore the issues and let them get worse. PC limits freedom of speech, too. Because freedom of speech should include being able to voice opinions that others are "offended" by (quotation marks coz in our PC era everyone is offended by everything). PC stops outrage and some things need outrage to come to the forefront and be tackled.
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    So when are you turning your girlfriend over for Muhammad to use?
    Stop making posts to me. You're utterly disgusting and I have no interest in conversing with you.
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    (Original post by Omen96)
    Not really. Its neighbours like Sweden, Germany and Greece have publicly invited these migrants. If they want them they can have them. I don't see why countries who sent out no invitation should bare the burden. Let countries like Germany have them
    Well they shouldnt have signed up to the 1951 Convention on Refugees.
    In this case the relevant neighbours will be Italy, Switzerland and Slovakia
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    So when are you turning your girlfriend over for Muhammad to use?
    Dude quit it with the disgusting homophobic slurs. It's immature asf. He doesn't have similar views to me but I don't resort to insults when he challenges my views.
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    We get it, you love refugee ****, you don't need to type paragraphs making excuses for them.
    Why are you like this? Because in real life you would be afraid to say this to someone's face?

    I am also arguing against this user. Arguing. Why do you feel the need to voice no opinion, simply personally attack him/her?

    In fact, if you are no troll, and you actually have a political opinion on this matter, behaving in this way is the surest way for the rest of the people to think "oh look these people are against immigrants, they are obscene, they must be wrong".
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    Dude quit it with the disgusting homophobic slurs. It's immature asf. He doesn't have similar views to me but I don't resort to insults when he challenges my views.
    You think it's disgusting to watch your girlfriend have sex with a Muslim? Are you some kind of racist?

    (Original post by brainhuman)
    Why are you like this? Because in real life you would be afraid to say this to someone's face?

    I am also arguing against this user. Arguing. Why do you feel the need to voice no opinion, simply personally attack him/her?

    In fact, if you are no troll, and you actually have a political opinion on this matter, behaving in this way is the surest way for the rest of the people to think "oh look these people are against immigrants, they are obscene, they must be wrong".
    Mostly because it's funny (and true)
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    You think it's disgusting to watch your girlfriend have sex with a Muslim? Are you some kind of racist?


    Mostly because it's funny (and true)
    I'm referring to your previous posts sweetheart. You somehow brought Islam into it.
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    (Original post by Start the Fire)
    You think it's disgusting to watch your girlfriend have sex with a Muslim? Are you some kind of racist?


    Mostly because it's funny (and true)
    You think it's funny to be obscene? Bully others? Try to hurt them?

    Sad.

    ps and super ironic given that one of your arguments against immigrants seems to be that they will harm us.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    I'm referring to your previous posts sweetheart. You somehow brought Islam into it.
    you think it's homophobic to suck a Muslim's ****?
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    (Original post by brainhuman)
    You think it's funny to be obscene? Bully others? Try to hurt them?

    Sad.
    It works for Frankie Boyle m8
 
 
 
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