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Why do meninists think anyone cares what they have to say? watch

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    (Original post by giveupbeth)
    They're a bunch of self-gratifying losers who only care about putting feminists down, so, you know, just wondering.
    Menimism isn't a real movement. It's a troll reactionary movement that parodies feminism.
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    (Original post by theDanIdentity)
    key words you mentioned which are wrong btw:

    1) 'by definition' : you forget that all manners of definition are open to interpretation by whomever and whoever deems fit; for what ever purpose they do so. that is in kiddie terms (as you want to be a child); every single radfem you see out there spouting ******** like 'kill all men'; are ALL feminists.

    2) 'seeking equality'

    3) 'side of men': if they really were, there wouldn't be a need for meninism/MRA. think about it

    4) 'privilege' this is the ******** i hate most about feminism. you ****ers all think that all men are priviledged. you forget that men both in centuries past and present have died more times that women (wars; suicide rates; e.t.c)

    5) 'don't fight for': right. because last time i checked chasing a man who wore a shirt about women, but who accomplished a feat no other human ever has; constitutes 'real issues'

    6) 'real issues': your definition of real issues is much more dependant on issues YOU (and by extension feminism) considers to be 'real'. no feminist chases after issues that don't immediately affect them, but rather ones that affect their sex; and IF it affects men then they begrudingly do something about it.

    7) 'merely seek to discredit': you forget again, that a movement which started out of eliminating all men on the planet (Research SCUM movement); isn't exactly an established movement to discredit in any case; it's just been caked in makeup to try to decieve the masses.

    i reallly could go on and type up a 1000 word essay debunking every myth that has been pumped into that brain of yours; but, frankly, why havn't you ever thought to yourself that these guys who keep popping up on here with threads, might actually be right?

    e.g. research christina hoff summers; lauren southern; e.t.c <<< examples of stellar women/feminists who actually have a mind of their own.
    as someone else said on a different thread:
    "It's beyond me how people can think egalitarianism and feminism are the same thing.
    Here are the definitions:
    Egalitarianism: a movement which advocates equality for all people.
    Feminism: a gender equality movement which advocates equality for all women.

    Please note that feminism isn't for 'women and men', 'both sexes' or vice versa. No where in that does it imply that feminism = men + women's rights. The fact that people try to change feminism's meaning simply shows how out of touch it is with our society's problems.

    And if in any way feminism brings about equality for 'both sexes', it's by determining equality for males around female problems. A prime example of this is the issue of the majority of rape victims being female. (No matter whether feminist or masculist, there's no use trying to disprove this. The facts are laid out in front of you.)
    However, ONLY BECAUSE this is a women-led issue will feminism act upon what you could call the 'male' side of the story. By definition, feminism will only focus on solving women's equality, and thus any other gender's equality will merely follow up from that women-specific issue.
    What about the fact that the majority of suicides are done by men? That the jail time for the same crime is 3 times higher for males? What about the woman's privilege of custody over her child, no matter whether she is fit to take care of it? What about the 61% of homeless people being men? That only 2/5 of college graduates are male? All these issues which are male-led, but by definition feminism will have nothing to do with them. And don't forget that these problems are global, and not just reserved for first-world countries...

    Egalitarianism will fight for the rights of all sexes, creeds, appearances or sexualities - or in other words, allpeople - equally, and so will be the movement out of the two that'll actually combat these problems.

    "So if feminism (in its very essence) will not touch these aspects, what about the feminists who fight for men's rights!??"

    Despite it being nice to see that even those in a very polarised movement (feminism) still are just as compassionate towards other sexes, it completely goes against the very definition of feminism. Do people not realise the irony of this? Having your own interpretation of feminism will not change what feminism is, and therefore will not qualify you as a feminist.
    What people need to realise with labels like 'feminist' or 'egalitarian' is that you can't change what they are to suit your whims. If you want equality for both sexes, you can call yourself an egalitarian. If you want to then lean towards equality for women than men, then don't call yourself an egalitarian. Call yourself a feminist. You have the choice of labelling yourself, but it's not up to you to decide what they mean if they have a globally established meaning (like feminism or egalitarianism do).

    "But people will naturally interpret things in their own way - it's called being human!!"

    Of course. But the whole point of having ideologies is for them to be defined and followed according to those definitions. It's just as obvious as the fact that you can't be a Christian if you worship Satan. If you have a specific belief, idea or motive that doesn't quite exactly match any other - or, if you want to have your own view of things, then don't label yourself. Don't want to be labelled? DON'T LABEL YOURSELF. Just because you believe in equality doesn't mean you should rush with the hype and start calling yourself something. To believe in equal rights, you don't have to call yourself anything. As an example, if feminists say "if you believe in .... , you're a feminist", that's when you know you should steer clear of them.

    "Now you're just contradicting yourself, bawww!!1"
    How come? Because I basically said "If you want to ... lean towards equality for women than men, then you can call yourself a feminist"?
    Do you notice that subtle little "can call" in there?
    That means that I'm not directly telling you to call yourself a feminist - I'm giving you a choice. Like I already said, it's your choice whether you label yourself or not. I'm not telling you that you have to call yourself this the minute you fulfil the requirement, or patronising you if you're not one. However, it is not your choice to determine what feminism means. Feminism has been agreed on by many to be the definition at the very top of my post, as well as by the one who coined it. So no matter whether you call yourself a feminist or not, you won't be a feminist if you go against that definition. You'll be simply making a fool out of the movement and ultimately yourself, and you'll know that deep inside no matter how much you try to justify it.

    "So how will people know what you believe in if you can't tell them with a simple definition!?!?!"

    Let me tell you of a little quote that encompasses one of the reasons we have movements: Actions speak louder than words.

    Actually doing something towards what you fight for would mean that you won't need to explain yourself to people. Call yourself an egalitarian all you want, but if you're not BEING an egalitarian then you're letting your movement down. Spreading awareness doesn't count. Why? Because anyone can do that. When criticising a movement, you're giving it just as much publicity as a radical would. (If anyone wants me to explain further, I will do.) And if someone asks you this despite everything, stop being lazy and just tell them. Being passionate about what you believe in is willing to find a way to explain your motives to people, EVEN IF they didn't have a term. After all, a reason for fighting for things is to get other people to join you."

    1) There are extremists in any group, it doesn't mean the majority share this view. I call myself a feminist but obviously I don't hate men, demonize men or seek to lessen their rights. Society as a whole has been sexist for a while and most people were brought up to be sexist, consciously or subconsciously. It's not okay to be sexist, but it doesn't mean it's your fault entirely.

    2) Feminism does benefit men. You're expected to be masculine and not to show emotion. Men can be mocked for doing 'girly' things like ballet because feminity is seen as a bad thing in men, yet I can do 'masculine' things because it's not considered bad for women to be masculine. If being feminine wasn't seen as degrading, men could do traditionally female activities without being mocked.
    Also the response to males who have been sexually assaulted is vastly different to the response a female victim gets. Men are considered pathetic for being overpowered by a female, and don't tend to get the help they need in the aftermath. If females weren't seen as weaker than men, male rape victims would be more likely to recieve help. Right now if a male is assaulted it's seen as a reflection of his character rather than that of the aggressor's. Same goes for domestic abuse.

    3) Most men are privileged, and have been throughout history. Obviously there are exceptions to this, but that doesn't mean the majority aren't privileged. Men tend to get better wages for the same job. There are more misogynists than misandrists, so women are more likely to be discriminated against. Statistically, the biggest threat to women is men.

    4) Feminism targets real issues. What about child brides? Forced marriages? Female genital mutilation? I suppose some feminists don't care about these issues, but if your feminism doesn't extend to other cultures then you're probably missing the point.
    On a less important level, the wage gap, the treatment of male assualt victims, and the idea that women are weaker are all issues that need to be addressed.

    5) The reason feminism concentrates on women's rights is because the imbalance of power is more in men's favour right now. Equal rights is the goal, but to make it equal, it's women's rights we need to focus on right now.

    6) I don't know about the other statistics, but attemped suicide rates are roughly equal between the genders. It's just that men are more successful than women at committing suicide.
    As for women being advantaged in custody battles, I agree. Men should have an equal chance for custody. But have you considered maybe women have this advantage because of traditional gender roles, which say women are meant to raise children while men earn money?
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    (Original post by Kvothe the arcane)
    Menimism isn't a real movement. It's a troll reactionary movement that parodies feminism.
    Perhaps that was the original intention, but many meninists, or MRAs, make comments which are truly offensive- it certainly isn't funny.
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    (Original post by giveupbeth)
    They're a bunch of self-gratifying losers who only care about putting feminists down, so, you know, just wondering.
    Feminism is about equality for EVERYONE.

    Maybe you should give up, beth.
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    (Original post by giveupbeth)
    Perhaps that was the original intention, but many meninists, or MRAs, make comments which are truly offensive- it certainly isn't funny.
    They aren't true meninists. True meninism is about equal rights, as I mentioned earlier.
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    (Original post by giveupbeth)
    Perhaps that was the original intention, but many meninists, or MRAs, make comments which are truly offensive- it certainly isn't funny.
    Do you think your right to offence should limit their right to free speech?

    And I would not conflate the two groups. One is comprised mainly of satirists and the other, advocates for male rights. Beyond that, you forgot the key word: some. And humour is subjective. You might not get the jokes but others do. I find a number of things amusing that others might be sensitive to as it hits close to home.

    Can you provide examples for the things you're talking about?
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    (Original post by ByronicHero)
    Where do we stand on frenemys?

    ??
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    (Original post by spv)
    Feminism is about equality for EVERYONE.

    Maybe you should give up, beth.
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make
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    (Original post by Kvothe the arcane)
    Do you think your right to offence should limit their right to free speech?

    And I would not conflate the two groups. One is comprised mainly of satirists and the other, advocates for male rights. Beyond that, you forgot the key word: some. And humour is subjective. You might not get the jokes but others do. I find a number of things amusing that others might be sensitive to as it hits close to home.

    Can you provide examples for the things you're talking about?
    I'm not attempting to infringe on anyone's free speech, merely making use of my own to bring attention to the ridiculousness of this movement. Any sensible person should see the ridiculousness of the claims many so called MRAs make, but unfortunately this is not the case.

    Personally, I enjoy a good joke as much as the next person. I will laugh at pretty much anything- as long as it's not offensive. Humour should never be prioritised over the feelings of vulnerable groups.
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    (Original post by giveupbeth)
    I'm not attempting to infringe on anyone's free speech, merely making use of my own to bring attention to the ridiculousness of this movement. Any sensible person should see the ridiculousness of the claims many so called MRAs make, but unfortunately this is not the case.

    Personally, I enjoy a good joke as much as the next person. I will laugh at pretty much anything- as long as it's not offensive. Humour should never be prioritised over the feelings of vulnerable groups.
    And I of course respect your right to critique them. I'm not a hypocrite. But you contradict yourself when you say that comedians should self-censor. You seem to think that we all find the same things offensive when that is not true.

    What vulnerable groups are being hurt by the actions of MRAs? :holmes:.

    You've made a claim without giving some examples. No, it's not obvious to me :dontknow:. What are their ridiculous claims? That there should be more shelters for homeless and battered men? :beard:
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    (Original post by Kvothe the arcane)
    And I of course respect your right to critique them. I'm not a hypocrite. But you contradict yourself when you say that comedians should self-censor. You seem to think that we all find the same things offensive when that is not true.

    What vulnerable groups are being hurt by the actions of MRAs? :holmes:.

    You've made a claim without giving some examples. No, it's not obvious to me :dontknow:. What are their ridiculous claims? That there should be more shelters for homeless and battered men? :beard:
    Look I can't be bothered anymore, I'm tired and you're not willing to listen. I don't take receipts every time I see a meninist sending hate, but I'm sure you can find proof if you take the time to google it- which you would do if you were genuinely interested.

    I am not contradicting myself by saying that people should consider what they are saying. Everyone has the right to think and say what they want, but they should be prepared for criticism and not claim their right are being infringed on when they receive it (which I have seen happen again and again). It's not having your freedom of speech infringed on to have someone say that you should think about what you say and it's impact before you say it.
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    (Original post by TheIr0nDuke)
    Why do feminists think anyone cares what they have to say?
    Because the rational majority are right.
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    How little confidence one must have to join such a "movement"...too funny
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    I'm a meninist
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Because the rational majority are right.
    No, they really aren't. If you want to help oppressed women, start with Islamic countries instead of the drivel most spout in the West about 'manspreading' or 'mansplaining'.
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    (Original post by giveupbeth)
    Look I can't be bothered anymore, I'm tired and you're not willing to listen. I don't take receipts every time I see a meninist sending hate, but I'm sure you can find proof if you take the time to google it- which you would do if you were genuinely interested.
    You have proposed something so it's up to you to support it and besides, a few isolated examples would not prove that it was an inherit problem with the movement. Exceptions don't make the rule and there are always rude, belligerent people in the most noble of movements. But I understand if you can't be bothered making a case for it.

    I'm still curious to hear what claims MRAs make that you find ridiculous.
    I am not contradicting myself by saying that people should consider what they are saying. Everyone has the right to think and say what they want, but they should be prepared for criticism and not claim their right are being infringed on when they receive it (which I have seen happen again and again). It's not having your freedom of speech infringed on to have someone say that you should think about what you say and it's impact before you say it.
    I agree that criticism is fine. However I disagree that someone shouldn't say something because another might be offended.
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    (Original post by TheIr0nDuke)
    Why do feminists think anyone cares what they have to say?
    Because unlike "Meninists" they have achieved a lot.
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    why do feminists think anyone cares what they have to say
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Aeyi3AwKr8
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    My jimmies have been rustled.
 
 
 
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