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M385 - Motion on the expansion of Heathrow Airport Watch

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    I'm either for Heathrow or Gatwick expansion to be honest, so on that basis against this Motion, however, I would prefer a second runway at Gatwick than a third at Heathrow - however, some expansion would be good!
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    Aye, Heathrow expansion is a good thing, Gatwick expansion is a good thing, and the environment argument is broken because there is more pollution from the plane sitting in holding patterns for an hour than if the planes could land quicker.

    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    I'm either for Heathrow or Gatwick expansion to be honest, so on that basis against this Motion, however, I would prefer a second runway at Gatwick than a third at Heathrow - however, some expansion would be good!
    A second runway at Gatwick is not mutually exclusive with a third runway at Heathrow because Gatwick handles lots of leisure flights where Heathrow handles all scheduled flights. Gatwick needs a third runway to keep up with demand from Britons who are looking to go on their package holidays, Heathrow needs a new runway to keep up with demand from travellers who are connecting, and individuals keep talking about a new runway in the North but the existing runways in the North are operating well below maximum capacity.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    Aye, Heathrow expansion is a good thing, Gatwick expansion is a good thing, and the environment argument is broken because there is more pollution from the plane sitting in holding patterns for an hour than if the planes could land quicker.



    A second runway at Gatwick is not mutually exclusive with a third runway at Heathrow because Gatwick handles lots of leisure flights where Heathrow handles all scheduled flights. Gatwick needs a third runway to keep up with demand from Britons who are looking to go on their package holidays, Heathrow needs a new runway to keep up with demand from travellers who are connecting, and individuals keep talking about a new runway in the North but the existing runways in the North are operating well below maximum capacity.
    I agree, however, both a Heathrow and Gatwick expansion really isn't going to happen though...

    Let's concentrate on getting Gatwick a second runway first though xD
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    I agree, however, both a Heathrow and Gatwick expansion really isn't going to happen though...

    Let's concentrate on getting Gatwick a second runway first though xD
    Expansion will not happen if the government does not approve building runways at both airports, however, if the government was willing to put the economy, environment, and well-being of the country first, the government would approve expansion at both airports.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    Expansion will not happen if the government does not approve building runways at both airports, however, if the government was willing to put the economy, environment, and well-being of the country first, the government would approve expansion at both airports.
    Perhaps, but I can't see that happening to be honest... One, yes, but not both!

    (Don't get me wrong, as much as I'd like to see both expanded...!)
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    Perhaps, but I can't see that happening to be honest... One, yes, but not both!

    (Don't get me wrong, as much as I'd like to see both expanded...!)
    In real life I cannot see expansion because the current government keeps delaying any decision but in TSR, where government ministers feel differently, expansion should be on the horizon.
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    In real life I cannot see expansion because the current government keeps delaying any decision but in TSR, where government ministers feel differently, expansion should be on the horizon.
    Well just have to wait and see
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    (Original post by Midnightmemories)
    Because Heathrow having a third run way is a stupid idea considering that it's already a huge airport.

    Gatwick is smaller and the one run way works for them.

    Heathrow getting run way number 3 could kill off smaller airports, especially ones in the north.
    What's wrong with it already being "huge", it isn't even that big. Manchester also has 2 runways for significantly less capacity, Schiphol has 6, CDG has 4, Dulles 4 with a 5th planned, JFK has 4, Newark Liberty has 3, LAX has 4, Jackson Atlanta has 5, Frankfurt has 4, Orly is a 3 runway affair.

    What does this say to you? That in western airports it is far more common to be looking at terminal space as the limiting capacity factor and not runway capacity. The only airport I could find in my little search that is also going to be runway restricted for capacity is Dubai.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    What's wrong with it already being "huge", it isn't even that big. Manchester also has 2 runways for significantly less capacity, Schiphol has 6, CDG has 4, Dulles 4 with a 5th planned, JFK has 4, Newark Liberty has 3, LAX has 4, Jackson Atlanta has 5, Frankfurt has 4, Orly is a 3 runway affair.

    What does this say to you? That in western airports it is far more common to be looking at terminal space as the limiting capacity factor and not runway capacity. The only airport I could find in my little search that is also going to be runway restricted for capacity is Dubai.

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    Heathrow is the only airport in the top 20 of aircraft movements to have only 2 runways
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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    I'm either for Heathrow or Gatwick expansion to be honest, so on that basis against this Motion, however, I would prefer a second runway at Gatwick than a third at Heathrow - however, some expansion would be good!
    Likewise. I can get a train to Gatwick directly from my university and it's the airport I depart from usually when I'm off to another country so naturally I would favour an expansion of Gatwick. Nevertheless, completely ruling out an expansion of Heathrow for NIMBY reasons is ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    The only northern airport in competition with Heathrow is Manchester. Flights to northern airports are supplements to Heathrow, not substitutes.
    I think the point she was making is that that is a stupid arrangement; flights should be spread out more, even if it's only to avoid build ups of air traffic. The inconvenience to locals of having a mega hub for air transport in London is too great.

    Look at the English Electric Lightning for an example (I know it is no longer air worthy in Britain), the Lightning was grounded because it caused too much air pollution. If one plane can make that much noise, imagine living next to Heathrow after it gets a third runway; it'd be like living on an F1 circuit where the cars don't stop. You already need ear defence within a certain area of Heathrow to follow the health and safety guidelines.

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    Nay, we should expand as many of our airports as possible.
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    I really believe that we need to expand outside of London and the South if we can. We should open a new Airport in the north. It I vital to the economy and taking away Londons golden advantage over our other great cities
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    I really believe that we need to expand outside of London and the South if we can. We should open a new Airport in the north. It I vital to the economy and taking away Londons golden advantage over our other great cities
    I believe that also, but what makes Heathrow expansion and northern expansion mutually exclusive?
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    I believe that also, but what makes Heathrow expansion and northern expansion mutually exclusive?
    The likelihood is that the next expansion will be the only one for some time. I think if anything an expansion is welcomed but we should also see a reliable, efficient and effective plan made for the construction of Northern airports. For that reason I would be in favour of this bill but only if it doesn't mean that the north again is left out.
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    The likelihood is that the next expansion will be the only one for some time. I think if anything an expansion is welcomed but we should also see a reliable, efficient and effective plan made for the construction of Northern airports. For that reason I would be in favour of this bill but only if it doesn't mean that the north again is left out.
    That would be something to take up with Rakas21
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    (Original post by Andy98)
    I think the point she was making is that that is a stupid arrangement; flights should be spread out more, even if it's only to avoid build ups of air traffic. The inconvenience to locals of having a mega hub for air transport in London is too great.

    Look at the English Electric Lightning for an example (I know it is no longer air worthy in Britain), the Lightning was grounded because it caused too much air pollution. If one plane can make that much noise, imagine living next to Heathrow after it gets a third runway; it'd be like living on an F1 circuit where the cars don't stop. You already need ear defence within a certain area of Heathrow to follow the health and safety guidelines.

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    And how do you plan to spread them out. What on earth makes you think that consumers will fly to Doha from Carslile just because the state in its infinite wisdom believes its a good idea. What kind of demand analysis suggests that you can pick and choose where to stick flights and that's even ignoring the fact that airlines and airports are both private firms.

    Whether the locals like it or not they chose to live next to a fracking airport, to benefit from the high house prices and easy links. If the owners of both Gatwick and Heathrow are prepared to put their money where their mouth is then it suggests that the demand exists in London whether you would rather it was in Newcastle or not so have the state get out the fracking way so that we can get the jobs and growth we need to create prosperity for the natiun.
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    I really believe that we need to expand outside of London and the South if we can. We should open a new Airport in the north. It I vital to the economy and taking away Londons golden advantage over our other great cities
    I agree that we should also look to expand outside of London but we can do that as well as expanding in London.

    I disagree with taking things away from London what we should be aiming to achieve is constantly improving everywhere we can and that includes London.

    Currently the demand is in London and we should not restrict its capacity.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I agree that we should also look to expand outside of London but we can do that as well as expanding in London.

    I disagree with taking things away from London what we should be aiming to achieve is constantly improving everywhere we can and that includes London.

    Currently the demand is in London and we should not restrict its capacity.
    Agreed, but let's just not forget that the north is a big place which will benefit also. Perhaps we could start looking into a new Airport for the north is this bill goes through.
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    I really believe that we need to expand outside of London and the South if we can. We should open a new Airport in the north. It I vital to the economy and taking away Londons golden advantage over our other great cities
    I too agree that air travel in the north will increase but there's simply not the demand to create a new airport there with Manchester airport barely 50% of capacity and not desiring a new runway before 2030 at a minimum. If they request expansion though i can assure you that this ministry will not stand in their way.

    Right now we have two airports above 90% capacity and wanting to expand.. Gatwick and Heathrow. I think we should get out the way and let them.
 
 
 
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