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    I find it absolutely ****ing hilarious that you seem to think socialism is communism.

    The defining trait of capitalism is the free market, that the market decides what is produced. The opposite of that is not socialism. In fact, you can have both capitalism and socialism together.

    Or did you not realize that you live in a socialist capitalist country (assuming you do live in the UK)?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I asked a yes or no answer. I don't want a link.
    Do you think there should be zero tax?
    If so who will find our roads, police, judiciary, government and military and schools?

    I don't want a link, I want your answers.
    Because you seem to think in the absence of taxation the banks will fund this all...
    Yes Zero Tax.


    “Government Financing in a Free Society”:

    Any program of voluntary government financing has to be regarded as a goal for a distant future. What the advocates of a fully free society have to know, at present, is only the principle by which that goal can be achieved.

    The principle of voluntary government financing rests on the following premises: that the government is not the owner of the citizens’ income and, therefore, cannot hold a blank check on that income—that the nature of the proper governmental services must be constitutionally defined and delimited, leaving the government no power to enlarge the scope of its services at its own arbitrary discretion.

    Consequently, the principle of voluntary government financing regards the government as the servant, not the ruler, of the citizens—as an agent who must be paid for his services, not as a benefactor whose services are gratuitous, who dispenses something for nothing. [The Virtue of Selfishness]
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    (Original post by Truth2u)
    Yes Zero Tax.


    “Government Financing in a Free Society”:

    Any program of voluntary government financing has to be regarded as a goal for a distant future. What the advocates of a fully free society have to know, at present, is only the principle by which that goal can be achieved.

    The principle of voluntary government financing rests on the following premises: that the government is not the owner of the citizens’ income and, therefore, cannot hold a blank check on that income—that the nature of the proper governmental services must be constitutionally defined and delimited, leaving the government no power to enlarge the scope of its services at its own arbitrary discretion.

    Consequently, the principle of voluntary government financing regards the government as the servant, not the ruler, of the citizens—as an agent who must be paid for his services, not as a benefactor whose services are gratuitous, who dispenses something for nothing. [The Virtue of Selfishness]
    You've just copied and pasted...
    So your idea is that we would all just pay tax voluntary?

    Ah okay that makes sense, we should get rid of tax because it's awful theft, but to compensate for getting rid of it, we'd all pay tax?

    So you think tax is theft but in the absence of enforced tax you'd pay a load of voluntary tax?
    You think that's sufficient to fund all the services we need?
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    Looks like we have ourselves a meme off.



    Feel the bern.
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    (Original post by Truth2u)
    Yes Zero Tax.


    “Government Financing in a Free Society”:

    Any program of voluntary government financing has to be regarded as a goal for a distant future. What the advocates of a fully free society have to know, at present, is only the principle by which that goal can be achieved.

    The principle of voluntary government financing rests on the following premises: that the government is not the owner of the citizens’ income and, therefore, cannot hold a blank check on that income—that the nature of the proper governmental services must be constitutionally defined and delimited, leaving the government no power to enlarge the scope of its services at its own arbitrary discretion.

    Consequently, the principle of voluntary government financing regards the government as the servant, not the ruler, of the citizens—as an agent who must be paid for his services, not as a benefactor whose services are gratuitous, who dispenses something for nothing. [The Virtue of Selfishness]
    You're expecting rabid Capitalists to forfeit some of their money voluntarily and potentially for the benefit of others as opposed to just themselves.

    Never going to happen.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    You've just copied and pasted...
    So your idea is that we would all just pay tax voluntary?

    Ah okay that makes sense, we should get rid of tax because it's awful theft, but to compensate for getting rid of it, we'd all pay tax?

    So you think tax is theft but in the absence of enforced tax you'd pay a load of voluntary tax?
    You think that's sufficient to fund all the services we need?
    We do not need tax.

    Roads need 1 billion, they ask government for 1 billion - government prints 1 billion and pays them.

    The greatest con of the century is Central Banks charging interests on money creation then lending it governments which slowly destroys the value of money over time.
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    (Original post by Truth2u)
    We do not need tax.

    Roads need 1 billion, they ask government for 1 billion - government prints 1 billion and pays them.

    The greatest con of the century is Central Banks charging interests on money creation then lending it governments which slowly destroys the value of money over time.
    Because printing huge sums of money worked great for Germany...
    You have zero idea how money works. If you print huge amounts ofmoney the value of it decreases...

    You need real money to fund services. Real money that comes from taxation.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Because printing huge sums of money worked great for Germany...
    You have zero idea how money works. If you print huge amounts ofmoney the value of it decreases...

    You need real money to fund services. Real money that comes from taxation.
    Not if its backed by items of value (gold, silver or oil) and the money circulates around the system so you wouldn't need to keep printing anyway
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    (Original post by Truth2u)
    Not if its backed by items of value (gold, silver or oil) and the money circulates around the system so you wouldn't need to keep printing anyway
    But it won't be backed up because you're advocating creating it out of nothing which would lead to hyperinflation.

    We need taxation to fund at least a minimal amount of services.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    But it won't be backed up because you're advocating creating it out of nothing which would lead to hyperinflation.

    We need taxation to fund at least a minimal amount of services.
    We also haven't included tourism and charging international companies for the privilege of using our services... There are many ways that avoid taxing... Not to mention money from fines etc.

    EDIT: Money is created out of Nothing anyway
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    I asked a yes or no answer. I don't want a link.
    Do you think there should be zero tax?
    If so who will find our roads, police, judiciary, government, health service, military and schools?

    I don't want a link, I want your answers.
    Because you seem to think in the absence of taxation the banks will fund this all...
    Find them the same way I find milk/bread/eggs etc. ?
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    Just one question brah.

    If we had no tax, then who pays for education, security, etc?

    There would be ****ing anarchy. With the super rich being able to afford private security but everyone else being ****ed.

    Is that what you want?
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    (Original post by Truth2u)
    We also haven't included tourism and charging international companies for the privilege of using our services... There are many ways that avoid taxing... Not to mention money from fines etc.

    EDIT: Money is created out of Nothing anyway
    Charging international companies? Wait you mean like a TAX?
    Money is not created out of nothing, it relates to there being something worth that amount in gold etc.
    If you print loads of it, as Germany did in the 1920s/30s you get hyper inflation as it becomes worthless.

    Your suggestions for how we fund services are all laughable. They are:
    1.) Voluntary tax - Unrealistic, why would the people who least want to pay tax volunteer to do it?
    2.) Banks - Where are they going to get the money from?
    3.) Tourism - Of course, because tourism generates enough to fund all our public services...
    4.) Printing money - not viable, would lead to hyper inflation if we were printing such huge sums.

    Your only sensible suggestion...is tax.
    However you try and shift it, the reality is we at least need a minimal amount of tax to fund and run essential public services like roads, police, schools, hospitals, military, judicial system, government etc. Without them we could have no order and no society.
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    (Original post by otester)
    Find them the same way I find milk/bread/eggs etc. ?
    Oh I didn't realize chickens could lay a police force.
    I didn't realize you could milk a judicial system and roads out of a cow.
    I didn't realise that a baker could simply make and fund our school services out of dough.
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    (Original post by Truth2u)
    This explains:

    http://capitalism.org/taxation/how-w...hout-taxation/

    Also read the book: "Adam Smith: Wealth of Nations"

    Adam smith created Capitalism.
    Pretty sure this guy is a troll, how could one 'make capitalism'?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Oh I didn't realize chickens could lay a police force.
    I didn't realize you could milk a judicial system and roads out of a cow.
    I didn't realise that a baker could simply make and fund our school services out of dough.
    All of those things above can be provided without stealing resources from others, the same way chickens/eggs/milk can.
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    (Original post by brainhuman)
    I find it absolutely ****ing hilarious that you seem to think socialism is communism.

    The defining trait of capitalism is the free market, that the market decides what is produced. The opposite of that is not socialism. In fact, you can have both capitalism and socialism together.

    Or did you not realize that you live in a socialist capitalist country (assuming you do live in the UK)?
    Having a mix is not enough to solve the problems inherent in capitalism. The market mechanism is itself a source of unending conflict between buyers and sellers trying to get one over each other. Using the government to solve this will not work.
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    (Original post by otester)
    All of those things above can be provided without stealing resources from others, the same way chickens/eggs/milk can.
    How exactly can you provide roads in a free market? Would there be different roads from different companies next to each other? Tolls at each traffic light?
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    (Original post by otester)
    All of those things above can be provided without stealing resources from others, the same way chickens/eggs/milk can.
    What a bizarre analogy.
    How can our police force and roads be funded without tax?
    Go one tell me in detail.
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    (Original post by nellythumper)
    Having a mix is not enough to solve the problems inherent in capitalism. The market mechanism is itself a source of unending conflict between buyers and sellers trying to get one over each other. Using the government to solve this will not work.
    I have yet to see a better model.

    Not to mention that on some moral level don't you feel it necessary to help out those less fortunate than us? And no, not every poor person is lazy and thus undeserving...

    Also, if everyone were rich, who would do the menial jobs? Robots? Well maybe in a few centuries, but this is as much a theoretical discussion as a practical one.
 
 
 
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