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    Confused where the title comes from, but aye

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    An aye from me.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    I must say I disagree with bringing politics into education because it's usually heavily biased by the teacher's personal preferences. If I had a penny for every lefty teacher who tried to impose his views on the students, I'd be rich.

    If there's no way of ensuring that the presented information are bias-free and represent the whole political spectrum equally without any kind of endorsement (including declaring any political movement wrong), we should focus on teaching them math, English, geography, and history, to be able to make their own informed decisions.
    I do Government and Politics and school and you would be surprised at teachers. It is clear both my teachers are die hard left fans, however they make sure they do not bring it into lessons, unless we are doing political debates where we all take our own views.

    With regards to the bill, I believe that we need a way to allow younger people to get more information on politics, possibly through education in school as others have said, however until that time, I do not believe allowing younger people to vote is the correct thing.

    Nay
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    psrom, it is also the age of consent lest we forget, and the age at which, with parental permission, one can get married
    And indeed in Scotland (they also vote in general elections, remember?) without parental permission.
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    No, because it isn't a line in the sand.
    So, the age on which on paper you become an adult is a line in the sand, but the age at which you can do many of the things associated with adulthood isn't? Ok:rolleyes:


    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Your a level choices aren't as big as everybody makes out, and most of the rest of your list is conditional because until such a time as you hit the age of majority you require consent from your legal guardian. And how can I claim the tax back for what I paid before the age of 16, and who do I talk to about jailing all the people employing those under 16?

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    Agreed, but they still have an effect: you're probably not going to get into university to do maths if you have A-levels in DT, French and art history.

    A non-self-employed adult's continued employment requires the consent of their employer. Does that mean they are any less capable of making an informed decision of whether they want to continue in their job or not? Of course not.

    Didn't say you couldn't work or pay tax under 16, there are just significant restrictions which mean that 16 is the first age at which you can, in theory, both get a full-time job and pay most varieties of tax.


    (Original post by Wellzi)
    Forget it as being a way of more votes for the left, think of it like this:

    IF YOU'RE NOT OLD ENOUGH TO PAY TAXES, DEFEND THE COUNTRY OR DRINK, YOU DONT GET TO VOTE.

    Grow a brain and reject this nonsense.
    Not sure why you're not supporting this then given that 16-year-olds can do all of those things.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Again, not all 16-year-olds are political nerds such as yourself. I'd wager most of them aren't even interested in having the right to vote.

    Let me ask you (and the author) this: why is it so important to be able to vote at 16?

    Another question: one of two people would have to make a decision deeply affecting the quality of your life (e.g. whether you're provided with ‘free’ healthcare), one aged 16, the other 25—which one would you choose and why?
    At 16 you've finished school (or you're just doing your last exams), you pay tax, you can get married, you can have children and you can fight for your country. If you're able to do all of these things, you should have every right to have a say in how the country you were educated in, pay tax in, fight for and have a family in is run.

    The second question is a stupid question, as democracy isn't about one person doing something and one person not doing something. It's about everyone getting to vote and getting a say.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    At 16 you've finished school (or you're just doing your last exams), you pay tax, you can get married, you can have children and you can fight for your country. If you're able to do all of these things, you should have every right to have a say in how the country you were educated in, pay tax in, fight for and have a family in is run.

    The second question is a stupid question, as democracy isn't about one person doing something and one person not doing something. It's about everyone getting to vote and getting a say.
    Precisely. Why do you need be more mature to vote than to fight on the front line? It's a no brainer.
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    (Original post by Andy98)
    Confused where the title comes from, but aye

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    The Franchise is another name for the people who are eligible to vote. If we lower the voting age, then more people will be able to vote, thus the Franchise will be extended.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    At 16 you've finished school (or you're just doing your last exams), you pay tax, you can get married, you can have children and you can fight for your country. If you're able to do all of these things, you should have every right to have a say in how the country you were educated in, pay tax in, fight for and have a family in is run.

    The second question is a stupid question, as democracy isn't about one person doing something and one person not doing something. It's about everyone getting to vote and getting a say.
    Let's try this again

    Compulsory education is to 18 so you haven't finished education
    You can pay tax from birth
    Marriage still requires consent from a legal guardian because you are not of the age of majority
    You can have children before 16, it's a very loosely enforced law
    And that fighting also requires consent from your legal guardian, again, because you are not of the age of majority

    How many more times am I going to have to go through this for all you people that forget about that thing called consent, or can we make rape legal since consent is irrelevant now?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Let's try this again

    Compulsory education is to 18 so you haven't finished education
    You can pay tax from birth
    Marriage still requires consent from a legal guardian because you are not of the age of majority
    You can have children before 16, it's a very loosely enforced law
    And that fighting also requires consent from your legal guardian, again, because you are not of the age of majority

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    When did I say they'd finished education at 16? I said they'd finished School. There's a difference.
    I was referring to Income Tax (and NI)
    The Government still recognises that you are able to though
    Regardless, it's the law.
    Again, you can get shot. Just as long as your parents okay first. Regardless, you're still fighting for your country.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Let's try this again

    Compulsory education is to 18 so you haven't finished education
    You can pay tax from birth
    Marriage still requires consent from a legal guardian because you are not of the age of majority
    You can have children before 16, it's a very loosely enforced law
    And that fighting also requires consent from your legal guardian, again, because you are not of the age of majority
    Not in Scotland.
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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    Not in Scotland.
    Voting age for Scotland only elections are a separate matter to general elections

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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    When did I say they'd finished education at 16? I said they'd finished School. There's a difference.
    I was referring to Income Tax (and NI)
    The Government still recognises that you are able to though
    Regardless, it's the law.
    Again, you can get shot. Just as long as your parents okay first. Regardless, you're still fighting for your country.
    Arguably 16-18 they are still at school
    And what makes those taxes so much more important, if going down that route at least say they get a NI number
    I'm not quite sure what is so confusing about this whole age of majority thing, instead of looking at it as "you are allowed to do x" think of it Kore as "a responsible adult is allowed to let you do x", this is distinctly different from when you turn 18 and you need the permission of no third parties.

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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    Precisely. Why do you need be more mature to vote than to fight on the front line? It's a no brainer.
    Erm, perhaps because fighting as a private requires athletic skills and the ability to follow orders and point on shoot at the enemy, whereas making an informed vote requires a good deal of knowledge far outreaching whatever typical 16-year-olds are interested in. Additionally, one has to meet a range of criteria to enlist so it's not even like all 16-year-olds can do it (and we know most of them can't).

    I'm not saying 18 is good—I'm completely against democracy and in favour of meritocracy—but it's still better than 16.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Voting age for Scotland only elections are a separate matter to general elections
    Yes, but Scots vote in general elections too.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    At 16 you've finished school (or you're just doing your last exams), you pay tax, you can get married, you can have children and you can fight for your country. If you're able to do all of these things, you should have every right to have a say in how the country you were educated in, pay tax in, fight for and have a family in is run.

    The second question is a stupid question, as democracy isn't about one person doing something and one person not doing something. It's about everyone getting to vote and getting a say.
    I don't pay tax....

    You don't pay tax until you stop being a full time student, unless you make an income

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    (Original post by Saracen's Fez)
    Yes, but Scots vote in general elections too.
    Oh, so because less than 10% can vote in a certain way with the logic being used the other 90% should too?

    (Original post by Andy98)
    I don't pay tax....

    You don't pay tax until you stop being a full time student, unless you make an income

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    Once again, how do I claim back my more abstractly? taxes paid before I was 16, or I suppose better would be to ask how one would do so

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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    When did I say they'd finished education at 16? I said they'd finished School. There's a difference.
    I was referring to Income Tax (and NI)
    The Government still recognises that you are able to though
    Regardless, it's the law.
    Again, you can get shot. Just as long as your parents okay first. Regardless, you're still fighting for your country.
    If 16 year olds dont have the responsibility to say "i dont really want to stay in education any longer" why should they have the responsibility to vote?

    One can pay incone tax from birth, do you think that all of Daniel Radcliffes earnings from HP were tax free because he was underage?

    If you cant get married at 16 without parental consent then its not a good enough reason to lower the voting age to 16.

    You cant go on the front line at 16 even though you can join the army, so that point is void too.



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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    Erm, perhaps because fighting as a private requires athletic skills and the ability to follow orders and point on shoot at the enemy, whereas making an informed vote requires a good deal of knowledge far outreaching whatever typical 16-year-olds are interested in. Additionally, one has to meet a range of criteria to enlist so it's not even like all 16-year-olds can do it (and we know most of them can't).

    I'm not saying 18 is good—I'm completely against democracy and in favour of meritocracy—but it's still better than 16.
    So you're saying 16 year olds are young enough to potentially sacrifice their lives but don't have the brains to make an informed decision on how to vote? Your phrase 'I'm completely against democracy' concerns me. If everything in this country became meritocratic, we would just be a dictatorship.
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    (Original post by Quamquam123)
    So you're saying 16 year olds are young enough to potentially sacrifice their lives but don't have the brains to make an informed decision on how to vote? Your phrase 'I'm completely against democracy' concerns me. If everything in this country became meritocratic, we would just be a dictatorship.
    I think the choice to join the forces, especially the army, shows they have a lack of brains

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