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Brexit the Movie watch

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    (Original post by Tamora)
    There are few benefits to us a nation. There, I've acknowledged there are benefits.

    There are no benefits worth the price.
    wut
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    Leaving the EU would mean we are a self-governing country, able to decide our own policies, and that's good enough for me. It's pointless asking me. I'm in no position to make changes.
    What a bizarre thing. You don't like the idea that you have no say in the EU but conceed you have no say in UK politics which is ok? Wierd!
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    What a bizarre thing. You don't like the idea that you have no say in the EU but conceed you have no say in UK politics which is ok? Wierd!
    How is it bizarre when when we know the electorate chooses politicians which form the UK government and policies? And the electorate can kick politicians, and with them governments, out of office, in favour of politicians that want different policies? I vote for the party that I believe has the best policies. That's how I have my say. I wouldn't expect a bigger say than that. My opinion is worth no more than any other voter's. (Personally, I will work and vote for direct democracy and/or PR to improve our imperfect system.)

    Contrast that with the EU, where the electorate has very little influence influence and in a block with half a billion people too. The EU will never be democratic. It has too many diverse member states and too many people for that. It would never get anything done if it was.

    Any EU supporter who thinks he or she cares about democracy is confused about what democracy is at best.
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    How is it bizarre when when we know the electorate chooses politicians which form the UK government and policies?
    It is bizarre because you want the power to kick out politicians but you aren't really bothered about what they then use that power to achieve. It is like saying I want a car so I can drive around but I don't want to drive it.

    I asked you what specifically what you didn't like about the EU. Your answer was simply to say you wanted more democracy. i.e. you don't have a gripe with the current set up, just that you don't have the power to kick out EU politicians.

    I don't want to leave the EU because I don't want to take the risk that the value of my house will go down, that interest rates might go up, that stock markets (and the value of my pension) might go down, that I might lose my job - you know real things that affect me.

    You keep harping on about something you aren't bothered about actually doing hence my confusion.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    I don't want to leave the EU because I don't want to take the risk that the value of my house will go down, that interest rates might go up, that stock markets (and the value of my pension) might go down, that I might lose my job - you know real things that affect me.
    Yeah but only some of the most senior figures in economics have said that'll happen.

    On the other hand, Boris Johnson and Farage have said we'll be absolutely fine. So nothing to worry about!!
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Yeah but only some of the most senior figures in economics have said that'll happen.

    On the other hand, Boris Johnson and Farage have said we'll be absolutely fine. So nothing to worry about!!
    When they said "We'll be fine" they were of course referring to themselves. Farage has managed to extract well over £1 million from EU coffers in his role of not representing his constituents and Boris has his chat show and newspaper column.

    We're all in it together you know!?
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    It is bizarre because you want the power to kick out politicians but you aren't really bothered about what they then use that power to achieve. It is like saying I want a car so I can drive around but I don't want to drive it.

    I asked you what specifically what you didn't like about the EU. Your answer was simply to say you wanted more democracy. i.e. you don't have a gripe with the current set up, just that you don't have the power to kick out EU politicians.

    I don't want to leave the EU because I don't want to take the risk that the value of my house will go down, that interest rates might go up, that stock markets (and the value of my pension) might go down, that I might lose my job - you know real things that affect me.

    You keep harping on about something you aren't bothered about actually doing hence my confusion.
    If I have ever said I'm not bothered about what politicians do, I most definitely take it back! I don't like the anti-democratic nature of the EU, and will vote for a party that best reflects my view after Brexit. I'm a small 'c' conservative voter, and will support moves to direct democracy and/or PR, ok? However, I think the EU is capitalism on speed and I just can't see that as being a good thing.

    Those same things that affect you affect most of the population, but we don't all see the EU as being any kind of answer to the problems we face.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    When they said "We'll be fine" they were of course referring to themselves. Farage has managed to extract well over £1 million from EU coffers in his role of not representing his constituents and Boris has his chat show and newspaper column.

    We're all in it together you know!?
    He represents a constituent that wants to leave the EU, and does it really well. He has had the same money that every MEP in his position has had. Aren't you bothered by that? We also know that thousands of people employed by the EU are paid more than David Cameron. How about that?

    A lot of MPs have jobs outside politics. And Boris has a chat show and a newspaper column ... how shocking!
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    He represents a constituent that wants to leave the EU, and does it really well.
    Really? Farage regularly cites the fishing policies created by the EU as wasteful and a reason we should leave. He is on the Fishing Committee that could make the necessary changes. He only turned up to 1 in 42 meetings. He is a fake.

    https://next.ft.com/content/85563e82...5-00144feab7de
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Really? Farage regularly cites the fishing policies created by the EU as wasteful and a reason we should leave. He is on the Fishing Committee that could make the necessary changes. He only turned up to 1 in 42 meetings. He is a fake.

    https://next.ft.com/content/85563e82...5-00144feab7de

    Yes, really. UKIP MEPs consistently vote against more European integration unlike their opponents, and much good it has done. The EU juggernaut rolls on regardless. And Farage had a representative in each of those committee meetings.

    If Farage is a 'fake', better a fake than a traitor.
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    If Farage is a 'fake', better a fake than a traitor.
    Traitor? You make it sound like the EU has done one over us. I suppose you are opposed to the Human Rights Bill too and would have the state being able to impose its way on the citizen with no checks and balances? I am starting to get the cut of your cloth.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Traitor? You make it sound like the EU has done one over us. I suppose you are opposed to the Human Rights Bill too and would have the state being able to impose its way on the citizen with no checks and balances? I am starting to get the cut of your cloth.
    The EU isn't a traitor. British politicians who have been deceiving the public are.

    And I'm opposed to human rights law being dictated by a politically motivated court.
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    And I'm opposed to human rights law being dictated by a politically motivated court.
    Lucky this doesn't happen. The UK wins the vast majority of all cases which go to the ECtHR. Anyway - the ECtHR isn't part of the EU... so it's a little irrelevant.
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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Lucky this doesn't happen. The UK wins the vast majority of all cases which go to the ECtHR. Anyway - the ECtHR isn't part of the EU... so it's a little irrelevant.
    I didn't say the ECHR was part of the EU. How is the EU's accession to it progressing? It's all gone quiet, but its accession is supposed to 'strengthen' human rights across Europe, isn't it? It'll be more than a little relevant if that happens. (I'd have faith in the ECHR if it enshrined in law the rights I have now under English Common Law.)

    Do you disagree with Theresa May, when she says "The ECHR can bind the hands of parliament, adds nothing to our prosperity, makes us less secure by preventing the deportation of dangerous foreign nationals – and does nothing to change the attitudes of governments like Russia’s when it comes to human rights.”

    Is she genuine, do you think, or is she just playing to the eurosceptic wing of the party in an attempt to gain support for a leadership bid?
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    I didn't say the ECHR was part of the EU. How is the EU's accession to it progressing? It's all gone quiet, but its accession is supposed to 'strengthen' human rights across Europe, isn't it? It'll be more than a little relevant if that happens. (I'd have faith in the ECHR if it enshrined in law the rights I have now under English Common Law.)

    Do you disagree with Theresa May, when she says "The ECHR can bind the hands of parliament, adds nothing to our prosperity, makes us less secure by preventing the deportation of dangerous foreign nationals – and does nothing to change the attitudes of governments like Russia’s when it comes to human rights.”

    Is she genuine, do you think, or is she just playing to the eurosceptic wing of the party in an attempt to gain support for a leadership bid?
    I don't agree with May.

    What common law rights not enshrined by the ECHR are you most interested in?
 
 
 
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